604. - Ed Cumming

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? It's your boy, Chris Black, my final night here in Berlin, and I've actually turned a corner on it, Jason. Hello, hello. This is huge. I feel like you've been... I was writing the episode description for yesterday's pod, and I was like, we didn't even discuss where Chris was. So in the intro, where I'm like, Chris is in New York, Jason is in Glendale, whatever. I was just like, Chris is in Europe? I was like, I don't know where you are, because at this point, it's just like you kind of live there. But we haven't talked about it, which is weird. So, like, I don't want this bubble to burst. I understand. No, I understand. I'm ready to go home. I go home tomorrow morning. So you are sort of on record. I've never been to Berlin, but many people have said I will like it there because it is cheap. You can get around on bicycles and drugs and alcohol and bad techno music are abound. And that is true, but I've unlocked a new side to the city thanks to... some local friends it's called a circuit party and i love it now i i met some new friends new friends they've welcomed me into their they call it their den but today i my sven who actually was on the show he does that thing called the talks he was on when the when their book came out um like sven schula spin schumann yeah and he uh schumann schumann he was like you want to get lunch and he gave me a healthy option

And then he was like, I also could take you to the China Club, which is in the same building as the hotel where Michael Jackson dangled the baby over the ledge. And I was like, okay. That's the most Chris Black tempting thing. Because if someone's like, do you want to go to this restaurant for lunch? The food is good. And you're like, eh. Michael Jackson dangled a baby off of it, and your mouth starts watering. You start sharpening your silverware, putting a paper napkin into your shirt. So it's called the China Club, and it's the biggest and best collection of Chinese art outside of China, the country. So it's like this super ornate – Damn, it's like pho restaurants in Garden Grove. Exactly the same. Exactly the same. But like – Just, like, the most insane, ornate dining room. There was a smoking lounge indoors, which is, like, unheard of in Germany, but because it's private. And then the food was delicious. Like, really, really good. Had some dim sum. Had some aubergine. And it was A+. But I wanted to talk to you about a dessert I had. A rare lunch dessert. Okay, well, just really quick. You were able to finally enjoy the city of Berlin, Germany, because you went to an old Chinese restaurant. Well, it's not... A restaurant, first of all. It's a club. It has multiple restaurants. You do a club. Jeremy, my buddy, set me up at a great hotel called the Chateau Royal, and I went to some other restaurants and saw York. So it's a group effort. It's a group effort by well-to-do guys exactly our age, which is what I need to be around. You know what I mean? Sniffy's profile. But this dessert was a mango soup with a scoop. of vanilla ice cream floating in it. And it had not tapioca, but something else, like little balls for texture. Was it de boba? It wasn't de boba. Okay, so it was a chilled mango soup. Obviously, the German people known for their mango. So a chilled German soup with vanilla ice cream floater. Yes. And de boba balls. It was delicious.

Delicious. And I was surprised because I was skeptical, but he was like, you have to get, this is the thing you got to get. Are you paying attention, stir crazy? This is, we're going, this is going on the menu. So this is, I mean, I don't want to put on my food hat because we do have a food-ish guest on. Yeah, yeah. So I was hoping it would stay in the walk-in until he came on, but I'm going to have to pull it out. You know, is this or is this not a gazpacho? Great question. I mean, honestly, I can't answer that. I can't answer a food question of that level with, you know, I don't have the answer. I just was. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. It was delicious. And I was just so surprised, you know, that, that, that I, because it was, it was a plus and I, you know, I rarely allow myself. How thick was this soup? And then we're going to move on. Not super thick. It was honestly the perfect consistency. For all of the weird elements going on, the consistency was A+. Could you describe or give me an example of what the consistency was similar to, other than it was perfect? Motor oil? Like melted ice cream, almost. You know what I mean? Like a little thinner than that, but kind of like that. So, yeah, I mean, look, I love having my eyes open. What about the gym vibe? Jim Vibe, so the hotel has a relationship with the Equinox of Berlin, I guess, and it's got a pool full, every machine you could want, full of ugly people with bad tattoos. It's perfect. Is it called Equinox, or does it have a different German name? It's called, hold on, I'm going to look it up, because I cannot remember the name of it. It's okay. I was hoping that was going to be a funny name. Holmes Place, actually. Like Sherlock. But that's not funny. It's just weird. That sounds like the address of where our guest lives, probably. I live on [redacted address]. Holmes Muse. Yeah, I live right down there. The flat's right around the corner there. Well, speaking of where I live, let's talk about your girl, Chloe Sevigny.

waxing poetically about why she hates Los Angeles. And a lot of people tag me and they're like, bro, this is your girl. She's clowning you, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, we all know this is only making my penis harder, obviously. Yeah, first of all, she's right. First of all, she's right. When is she wrong? And secondly, this is me. If Los Angeles was a cuck chair, I'm sitting down and I'm listening and I'm learning. Berate my hometown. It's only going to get me harder. Call the cops. I'll fuck them, too. Those are all this is all these are all things I've said before about L.A. And we own a home there. But I like it. But it's all of the stuff she said is true. And New York is superior. And I think most people would agree with that unless they. But she didn't say New York is superior, though. She obviously maybe. Yeah, but that's something like that. That's the undertone. That's the undertone as a lifelong as a as the eternal New York girl. It's tough. Between the dog hating and now this, it's getting crazy. It's too good. Why hasn't she been talking for the last 20 years like this? Well, because she hasn't had a TV show or film come out that was this bad and in need of promotion. So I guess she's really... Is it that bad? I mean, I don't know. I don't know how well it's performing or being rated. I think everyone... Nobody wants to come out and say that the show is boring and it sucks because of... I think people have said that, actually. I just didn't know if it was true or not. Right, right, right. I mean, that's what DJ Them Jeans is saying. I don't have a letterbox. Yeah, I don't really trust you. I don't really trust you when it comes to television, though. You know you trust me. This is film and television. Okay, I'm sorry. I don't want to limit your scope. I apologize. I'm multidisciplinary in my screen time. There's a lot of things I trust you on, and you're a great source of information and inspiration in the food space, the electronic music space, the ambient music space.

The dangerous driving space. I could go on. But when it comes to film and television, this Yellowstone watcher has other words. I mean, Yellowstone's better than any other show. So, yeah, I do have other words. I mean, I can't. It's also, you know, Yellowstone. You're like the same kind of person who's like, Taco Bell's better. Taco Bell's still better. It tastes bald. I would never. And it's like, with your pea brain. then maybe I could see how you like that. I would normally agree with you, and I do have a pea brain, but I think that the numbers speak for themselves to an extent. I'm not out on a limb here saying that Yellowstone's a great television show. We're not discussing dick length. I'm talking girth. Does it please you? Do not bring Drake up. Do not do that. Do not bring up the hog. You're using a classic Chris Black excuse, which is... judging a piece of art on its sales versus its merit and artistic endeavors. Which, by that logic, the worst, dumbest things in the world are the best just because they sell them. Yeah, the stuff... Yeah, the stuff you like. Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande. You have no argument here. The next time you do your little bitch-ass fucking strategist GQ shit, then people are going to be like, I don't know where to find a curious pair of trousers in Stockholm. You're going to be like, go on Amazon. Amazon sells the most clothes ever. No, no. Check the numbers, bro. Bezos is swag. He's killing it. They're the best place to buy clothes. We all know that Amazon fashion failed, and maybe you don't know that, and that's why I'm informing you now. But, no, I think that – I buy clothes on Amazon, not Amazon brand. I know that you buy your wife beaters and socks on Amazon, but I think that it's – for some people, it's a destination for other things. I don't know. I've never really looked at the clothing beyond the kind of garments that we're talking about, but I'm sure they have some great offerings. You can get some entry-level Carhartts over there. Yeah, you can definitely get some Carhartts.

A little something for the uncle in your family. I love the idea of a blue-collar worker hitting Amazon to order his car hearts versus going to the local workwear store. Mom, do you have Prime? I need these car hearts tomorrow. I know I haven't called in a while, but can I use your Amazon Prime to order these pants? I broke my other ones. What else was I going to say? There was a... Or what time is it? I guess we almost have our guests here. Yeah, we got a guest. I could talk to Ed about this as well. Somebody sent me this yesterday on Eater LA. Somebody wrote an article. The title or the headline, as people call it, the hottest new accessory in LA restaurants, your takeout containers from home. People bring their own bags to grocery stores and metal water bottles everywhere. So why not apply that line of thinking to dining out? God. This is a nightmare. This is a nightmare. Unless this is an all-you-can-eat buffet or something where you plan to steal. I can't. I can't with that. All right, look, Ed, our guest is Ed Cumming. He's a... writer and editor from beautiful london um he he works at the telegraph but he also writes for one of my favorite independent magazines called the fence um that is so british i can barely understand it but i really like to support them okay um so let's uh let's uh let's give uh let's let's give ed a jingle fantastic this episode of how long gone is brought to you by squarespace Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do all our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area.

You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So, head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. How long? Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. We were talking right before you came on about a new dining trend that Jason was alerted to thanks to the good people at Grub Street. No, it was on Eater. Where the cup... Eater. Oh, Eater. I'm sorry. I get...

I get these important outlets confused. I guess what's happening in Los Angeles is the cucked community are bringing their own takeout containers to restaurants. Jason, is that? Yeah, they're showing up to LA restaurants with their takeout containers already from home. So, you know, their Tupperware, whatever it might be, reusable plastic containers. I think it's... I think it's sort of like we're going to take this food to go regardless. So I think I've seen it before where people have like anxiety for when the meal is done, and it's usually with some type of mom person around, metaphorically, spiritually, or literally, take that however. But when it's time to get the check and would you like any of this to go, Like this anxiety kicks in and you have this control thing and everyone has to show how they are the best at packing all the stuff together and making it all. And, you know, it's like I'm proud of myself for doing this. So I think it's kind of like I'm showing up to the putt-putt golf with my own putter kind of thing. You know, I know what I'm doing kind of thing. And that is all behind a shroud of environmentalism. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's strictly performative environmentalism, which luckily you guys don't really participate in over the pond. No, this is I mean, I'm interested to hear about this because the whole take take out phenomenon, the idea of having so much food that you need some kind of receptacle from home, like a rock sack or an enormous pot to take it home. The restaurant has given you 15,000 calories for your entree. This is the kind of uniquely American phenomenon. This is a good point. Okay, okay, okay. Unfortunately, he's right, and I don't – look, I love our large portions, and bigger is better. Just ask Drake. But I think that the shade that you're throwing is fair.

but it's not like you guys are eating healthy or are the portions that much smaller, let's be honest. Yeah, you guys are just as fat as we are. Yeah, but we're fat with the accumulation of smaller portions. Okay, so you're just ordering several portions and spreading it out, and we're getting it all on one plate of slop is what you're saying. Okay, so we're eating one big biscuit, and you're having 14 of them is what you're saying. Yeah, you're having like a Philly cheesesteak covered in, you know, fries or whatever but we invented high tea which is a completely unnecessary meal in the middle of the afternoon where you have a cake for no good reason where old women have cakes covered in jam and cream in a kind of hotel foyer and that's seen as a kind of national sport right so that's probably that's maybe where some of the extra you know ed i i just went recently went on record as a tea hater and i'm receiving some blowback for that shout out to our pg tips hive but i i have never had high tea and i've always wanted to do it at claire ridges because it seems like a rite of passage for any american teenage girl who's visiting london and But the prices are unbelievable. I love eating these sweets. I can have all of them, mother. The prices, I mean, it's like 200 bucks to have the high tea. Is it not? It ain't low tea. Yeah, but you guys bring that home like an hour, right? Yeah, look. Median American salary. Yeah, it's nothing about, this isn't a judgment on my income or American income. This is strictly how many cakes can one person eat for 200 quid? That's the question. I always assumed, yeah, that the pricing of those high teas was merely was to make wealthier tourists feel at home, like a kind of methadone spending for Americans. Like when they arrive, it's like, OK, well, how can we possibly spend a sensible amount on a meal? And you go to Claridge's and have a small cake and it's like, ah, OK, this is a kind of, you know, this is like a standard outlay. You've not done it yet? Right, right, right. Standard outlay. We'll take you next time you're in town. I would love – but I want to know what the – what's the – of a normal spread like this at any of these kind of – the hotels, what is the kind of star cake in your opinion? What is the number one? Well, also, Chris, don't sleep on savory. I love a crisp, crust-less cucumber.

sandwich i don't love those um but i do know it's part of the it's part of the display it's on offer yeah jason's right that's the highlight i would say that's the uh oh yeah the little the little sandwich without a cross that's that's a pleasure okay okay a little triangle but but i i could make those at home for one pound you know don't do that what you peel the cucumber at home i think you have more self-respect than that no no no i like i part of my 2024 Resolution is to make everything myself. Okay. Aside from growing my own produce and raising my own vegetables and eggs and things like that. But like, if I want to make a sandwich, bake the bread. You know what I mean? So you're going to do like a kind of English fetish core high tea at home. You're going to invite people around. I didn't know you were doing this. Are you back to the land? Is it the 1800s? Are you making your own butter? What do you think this is going to do for you? I've been making my own orange juice, which is not that hard, but it's a pain in the ass. Okay, I could do that. Come on. No, anyone can do it. I make my broths. It's a good habit, and I think it's a healthy connection to what you're putting in your body. For me to just, like, if it is, you know, relatively feasible and possible and not ridiculous, for me to just make everything myself. And you have a better connection to it. It's healthier for you. You know exactly what's going in and what's not going in. It's satisfying. You can put it on Instagram stories. The list goes on. Is this like a Noma thing? Have you been Noma-pilled? It does feel like that. It does feel like that. Taste of your heritage? No. Noma's not the only restaurant that makes their own food. No, but they talk about it a lot. It makes absolutely everything. They do make their own, well, not everything. When I went and had the bread and butter, I was like, oh, man, tell me about this bread and butter. And they're like, oh, we bought it. And they're like, well, we have a lovely butter person in town that we get it from. And I was like, all right. Well, I wrote a review of Noma, and one of the big kickers was that my favorite thing that I ate there.

was the bread and butter, and that was the one thing that they didn't make there. I know, it was great, but they were kind of sad about that. You know, nobody reached out from Noma. It wasn't that bad. I don't know. Well, I think that bread and butter is a good example of something that I feel like people spend their lives perfecting, and I would trust a lifelong baker before a Noma intern. Is that not fair? That's a good point. That's a very good point. I just feel like it's such a hard thing to master. But I feel like in order to become... I feel like in order to become a NOMA intern or a stagiae or whatever, you're already the best baker in your tiny village. you know that's true yeah yeah yeah no no that's true yeah you're the best baker in in rural denmark which is you know it's probably competitive honestly like they ain't got much going on yeah yeah yeah you work up through the like minor leagues make it to the majors yeah then finally go international yeah exactly exactly that's exactly how it looks i will jason called up to the big show jason since we're reuniting irl soon i expect to have i want to have one of these meals where everything is from the cold dead hands of them jeans i got you bro you're not gonna like it but i got you i'm not gonna like it that's for sure but speaking of um of tea and we can move on from there we when we were talking about tea and chris was on his tea hating rampage or and then also people reach out to me and they're like why the fuck are you drinking pg tips you know you're better than that blah blah blah so you as a food expert smart tidy writer and british person I want you to prescribe a T brand to Chris and to I based on our personality traits. Right. Hang on. Wait, Chris. Don't say right as if that's a normal question. Very good then. Very good then. I'm trying to think of something with just the right amount of shade. Don't worry. I edit the pod, so take your time. Hang on. Chris, do you seek stimulants?

in this field or is your like drink ed ed i i love stimulants and luckily since i can't do any of the good ones i'm i'm left with only water water based beverages to deliver the hit that i need right okay so you just want some yeah you just want some kind of builder builder rocket fuel yes you know where you leave the bag in for like 40 minutes like nine nine sugars in it 40 kind of uh lukewarm red bull okay yeah yeah when you say a builder tea what does that mean exactly for our american ears that might not know so builder tea is uh is a classic british middle class uh dilemma oh i'm out i'm out i'm out where like a tradesman is builder is builder literal it's not not in it's not not derogatory in this no no no no it's like your classic it's like a non-fancy tea it's like a tea it's in a mug rather than a fancy cup it's like the opposite even a poor shit builder would drink this is what you're saying it's more like it's robust it often has sugar in it it's you know full fat milk it's good it's the it's the real stuff it's yeah okay strong i do like that you're prescribing me something that's kind of you know uh working class um because i i yeah you know i do just like a pansy ass tea yeah yeah i'm not but i do like you know just a cup of joe so this feels along the same lines in the tea realm in the tea space okay yeah what what is the most what is the most bro-iest badass builder tea brand out right now oh my god the finer points of gradation i could not uh you know people i mean my wife is like a huge tea head is like a kind of i mean i've i prefer coffee but she's yeah you're a real man you're a real man ed i like that about you she's a kind of six six plus cups a day oh wow she has yorkshire tea okay a lot of people would swear by that i say okay there's a whole this is uh this is going to make people unsubscribe rapidly but there is a whole school of like

Whether you need certain teas for certain waters. In London, the water is very hard, very minerally, so you need more robust tea. You don't need to get into that. Hang on, wait. Jason, do you drink tea? Only if I have to. I've been drinking tea. I got a big thing of PG Tips just because I am a coffee drinker as well, but sometimes I can have a second or a third cup later in the afternoon if I'm... need to get some work done and i just don't like how much that gets me fucking kind of spracked out so i started drinking some like plain black tea builder tea in many ways yeah you should get on the later in the afternoon you'd enjoy it it's good it's not as much of a commitment as a coffee i think that's what's nice what do you what the fuck do you mean by yeah okay so today i i was like i'm desperate for an iced coffee i'm in berlin and i was like i'm desperate so i go to like the place called the barn, which was quite good. And like the three guys behind the counter were all dorks, like coffee guys. And they were like, Oh yeah, we, we can do an iced pour over. And I was like, all right, cool. Sure. And it, it gave me the caffeine jolt I was looking for, but I, I don't understand that you're pouring hot water into coffee, which goes into ice. Am I wrong in that estimation? Is that what's happening? Uh, I guess. Yes, that is what's happening. But the only reason why they're doing that is because they don't have pre-made cold brew because there's no demand for it there. So this is unfortunately the most efficient way for you to get what you're looking for. But that's just interesting to me because the pour over is the best cup of coffee normally because of the way it's done. This just felt like it was fine, and it tasted good, but I was just surprised. I've seen it before, but I don't know. I'd never thought about the method. You wanted it iced? You made your bed. You're going to lay in it, bitch. That's true. That's true. He's fucking American. Moving on from tea, let's get into biscuits. How important are biscuits in your culture over there? Biscuits? I had this insane day the other day. My job requires me to do a wide range of things.

often in quite a short space of time. Welcome to the club, honey. Yesterday I found myself going through... I have to sell McNugget buddies or they hit me. Oh yeah, those guys. Are they still going? Good luck getting your hands on one, Chief. The How Long Gone effect put those guys all over Grailed for prices that I don't think you could afford on your salary, but something to think about. Maybe take a second mortgage on the flat and you can afford the full set. That's probably true. I find the ads... so entertaining. You know, there's this old saying in newspapers that you read the ads for the good news and the newspaper for the bad news. Have you heard that? No, I haven't heard that, but I like it. So it's like, you know, there's murder and an earthquake and whatever, but look, everyone's buying Cartier. Or an espresso machine or something. But I feel like with the ads, with you guys, it's like the good news is in the pod and then the ads, I'm like, oh, okay. I need mental health help. I'm hungover. I need some kind of restorative green juice. Interesting. I kind of end up thinking long and hard about myself. That's good. Well, you're welcome or you're sorry. Yeah, you choose. Or I'm sorry. Sorry. I don't know. It's like maybe if I ordered less McDonald's to be delivered, I wouldn't need the online mental health support. Slow down, slow down, slow down. When's the last time you ordered McDonald's? I've done that exactly once to prove that I could. But I kind of always felt like walking to McDonald's. So it was like a power move? well it's like they've built something you should try it you know they've gone to the trouble of making this incredible situation it was something obviously that one dreamed of as a child and it finally it was here as an adult what is the but what is the british version of that is it is it just the the

like kebab shop oh yeah yeah yeah it's the kebab okay okay i i think that it's obviously that's different because it's independent you're supporting minorities which is cool yeah um whereas mcdonald's is you know i feel like a late night kebab is one of the great things that sobriety will spare you all right this episode of how long gone is brought to back quince jason the temps are warming up it's getting hot out there summer always changes how i get dressed uh i need pieces that feel lighter more breathable And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned.

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Because they aren't good? they're like the best thing you'll put in your mouth ever uh you know if you've had eight pints but you can you can never you can never eat that for lunch you have to sort of be drunk yeah you can eat it for lunch if you don't have to work in the afternoon i guess okay so it puts you down it'll take you out a little bit it'll take you yeah yeah i mean that's you gotta have something you gotta have something um yeah speaking of americans eating a large amount of calories i was i was listening to something that you wrote And you mentioned something that I wanted you to expand on. You said the phrase American style long reads. Yeah. So maybe implying that Americans read longer things than other people. And I wanted a little bit more clarity on that, please, because I don't know if compared, especially compared to your people, if we're necessarily known for our reading. There's, you know, that like New Yorker school of, you know, magazine journalism, which is like they, the guy goes and spends six months talking to the thing. And it's so reported. And there's all these, there's all these bits in it. Also check out Patrick Radden Keefe's newest story on a, on a British kid who fell off. Friend of the show. Friend of the show. Patrick Radden Keefe. I was speaking to him this morning, actually, about something else. he sends his he sends his great story we don't we did not deserve to have him on the podcast once i once i did more research on him i didn't know who he was when we had him on and now that i follow him and i've seen him work i've seen his work i'm like how the fuck did he do how long gone that's crazy he was delighted to do it he said he he was i was like i mentioned i was coming on and he said uh it was great because he spent um all this time on tour you know doing serious book tours and being asked um serious deep questions about his work and then

And then he was like, and it was just so refreshing. Yeah. We don't even know what the IRA is. What a delight. I'm sorry. Continue, though. What is the what is the. Oh, yeah. So he's a perfect example. Right. So that piece was amazing about, you know, London, about the kid who died in London. And he and so that's a great example. He spent five months. He had incredible access. He went to everyone. He got quotes from absolutely everyone. There's this passage that I do find really funny that these New Yorker pieces, they often have this, you can kind of see the moment where they say, and London was founded in, you know, 800 BC by ancient Rome, and then like draws this big line that speaks to the rest of the piece. But I think, you know, in magazine journalism, anyway, that's the kind of acme of the form, right? And in Britain, there's this culture of like, kind of imitative, less good. versions of long reads you know i guess it's it stems from the the difference between british and american journalism generally right where you know if you're an american journalist you're a kind of jedi knight and you're you know it's very serious it's like capital j it's all very like um and then everyone takes it very uh like a kind of calling whereas i think the difference is the word hack okay like i've told i've told other americans they're like what are you doing i'm like i'm a hack kind of proudly, and they're like, oh, don't say that by yourself. I'm sure it's good. I'm like, no, no, it's fine. I think, you know, the British school is much more like going rummaging this guy's bins this morning, and then we'll all go to the pub. Okay, I mean, look, that sounds better. I don't know if... So when you said an American-style long read, that was not a derogatory term. That is maybe out of jealousy. Yeah, that was self-deprecating. Like, you try and do all of this stuff, and then the only thing that people, you know, people are just interested in something dumb you wrote where you said, I've got to free me a little restaurant. Yeah, who's the opinion writer guy who always has this, like, it's like a kind of a bald white guy, and it's always just like a story, like...

why i think the park is stupid or something like that like that's what you people want to read right yeah adrian charles are you thinking of i don't think he kind of always has a grumpy look on and he has he's always doing an opinion piece about something that is really enjoyable to me he's a genius i think that guy he's uh you know he's he's perfected the form of the stupid little thing that everyone wants to read i know i'm jealous yeah just like why i why i hate music yeah you know something like that they're like we need to stop there's a there's one in um there's also someone like that at financial times that gets destroyed all the time and he does like a weekly kind of similar kind of thing but not quite as clever yeah and there's this other guy who does that at the strategist uh chris black yeah i've heard of him no i mean the attempt to write something part of what is going on is tough because like i wanted this week i you know i wrote about apple goggles but i wanted to write about the chloe 70 dog thing but then i was afraid of dog owners and if they would come for me and i think that our british friend isn't afraid jason that's the thing i'm trying to build up to that i'm very well adrian charles yeah he's not afraid Well, I mean, you go after the dog guys at your peril, right? Have you done that yet? Um, I know. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday every week on how long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not in print, so it doesn't count. No. The dog people need to get knocked down a peg every once in a while. Myself included. I just think you could cap them. The amount of dogs? Yeah, it could be like a raffle or whatever. It could be like, imagine how excited you'd be if you just saw like, if there was like, I don't know how many dogs there are, but if there were. If there was, like, one in ten dogs. Considerably less dogs. You're right. Kind of like how they do in China, where they kind of control how many children you can have. Interesting theory, Ed. I'll look into it. Huh. I thought you leaned left, but I guess not. Authoritarian dog left. Yeah. I am.

I was wondering as well, do people normally get 24-hour notice for this? No, no, no. You're a special case because of many things. we had a couple slots open and i i called you to fill said slot does that make you feel no that is that is fantastic i was just wondering what the like i just working i mean obviously you know the call the horn of gondor blows i'm coming but the uh you don't know how podcasting works i mean your wife does it but you know still maybe this is normal right i have no i was just wondering because it's like I don't know. I've there been like another strike and like every creative in America had some suddenly like. No, no, we we would appeal. Like, is this is this like Chris's terminal Anglophilia reaching a new height? No, no. No, I will not book anyone unless they are British. It is starting to become a nuisance. No, it's it's it's an it's an answer that as especially based on where you live, it's the answer is going to probably. anger you which is and and you won't believe it but los angeles in the last week has gone through an immense rain shower that has truly had multiple guests have to cancel because of issues around the weather because they're home because they're laurel canyon you know crumbling mansion has been taken over by God's piss, and there's nothing they can do. There's been power outages, Wi-Fi outages, roofs collapsing, floors leaking. So it's really hurt the L.A. podcasting community. Without our Wi-Fi, we are nothing. So we had to cross. It's the only safe place to be. That's why I'm in Berlin. The only safe place to be is Europe. So I knew if I contacted you. I've got my MacBook Pro running on a generator right now. It's not a pretty start. indoors but i knew i knew that that in the uk it's the usual you know concrete sky gloom and doom of the winter and uh you know i know you guys stopped working at 4 p.m so i thought this was perfect i thought it was yeah i know it's fun i mean obviously it's fantastic for me i just and i'm glad that i've been the beneficiary of a flood like um yeah

those animals in the ark or whatever yeah exactly exactly but that's a that's a fair question and no you know i pride myself on kind of keeping this calendar tidy and and quite far out um but sometimes sometimes you know factors that that are beyond my control intervene and it's it you know it benefits others i uh i told a friend i was coming on I don't know if he's a friend of the show yet, but Conrad Kaye, who writes industry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, I think this is an Anglophile cry for help. He's like, Laura Snapes and Raven Smith is one thing. No, I mean, look, if we've contacted you, then things are dire, is what you're saying. Something has gone wrong. And an apocalyptic flood in California does explain it. We do pretty well with British people and gay people. So you fall into at least one of those categories. Yeah, at least one. And Sporty Spice had to push, so here we are. And Raven Smith was having his driving test yesterday, so I guess he was otherwise engaged. I know. I texted him about it, actually, because I was like, it's impressive that he... It's manual. It is. He's a stick, man. Not knowing how to drive is so on brand for Raven. No, not knowing how to drive is pretty cool, honestly. I can't imagine it because I need it, but when people can't drive or they're like, oh yeah, I don't do that. Many British folks, depending on where you live, they can't be arsed. There's no real reason to, right? You got a car, Ed? No, we got rid of it. The catalytic converter got stolen. These guys just came in the night and chopped it off. Really? So we just didn't replace it. And we haven't missed it. It's heaven. Really? Okay, so because you have kids, so you needed a car. A couple of top boys stole my catalytic converter, and it's been heaven ever since. It was good, man. It was a weight off my shoulders. The decision's taken out of your hands. You're like, okay, well, I'm no longer a driving person. That's fine. The universe spoke to you. Cars are a pain in the ass. I mean, it's nothing but a money pit and annoyances. I found it insane.

On that trip when we bumped into each other, Chris, that was, so the start of that trip was in Houston. Yes. Which I'd never been to before. And I could not believe. What a delight. The scale of that, you know, where it's like, I just wanted, I would, you know, Google, where can I get a coffee? And it'd be like, oh yeah, there's this cute little neighborhood place. It's only eight miles away. Yeah, sure, sure. And you call an Uber and this kind of like, you know, thing that. I love the idea. I love the idea of you in Texas. You were writing a story, right? No one's ever trundled anywhere in Houston, just for the record. Sorry, go ahead. What do they do? I was on the trail of a man who actually, mercifully, I probably won't have to explain to you guys who he is, but I've spent most of the past. two months telling English people who he is, Morgan Wallen. Yes. Yes. Now I'm, now I'm remembering. He's one of our most famous racists. I went to the Morgan Wallen show in Houston. Oh, I bet that was a fucking motion picture. That was, it was a good scene. Yeah. I enjoyed that a lot. Um, I, we, you know, we, we like hung out a bit. He, uh, I met some of the other, other guys. I met a lot of people who'd never met an English person. Yes. Yes. Okay. So a lot of people wearing, you know, wearing the full gear. It's quite a scene over there. You sure do talk funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long did it take you to stop calling him Morgan? Wait, hang on. What am I doing it wrong? No, you're doing it right. Well, no, you're saying it correctly, but Americans are like, that's Morgan. Morgan. But I want you to say Morgan as if it's... Morgan, Morgan. Don't bring me the 2017 Morgan. It's turned. yeah it was a very young morgan how did you how did you find him in general is he a pro or is he is he pretty loose with it yeah man he was he was on he was on yeah you know he was tight it was like this this guy he had them in the palm of his hand everyone knew every syllable you know everyone was everyone was there and then i saw him in london uh like a month later and and it was the same deal and it was an interesting comparison because because actually there was there was some parallels in the crowd and i think

you know, in London, he sold out the O2. There was very little overlap with like a national gig. Sure. You know, it was like Scots, it was guys from Wales, it was guys from Essex. And they were all, and they were, they were loving it. And I don't know whether that's like, whether that tracks and kind of people who feel a bit left out of like a lot of the mainstream music discourse, but they just love it. I mean, the difference in America is that all the Morgan Wallen fans are absolutely loaded. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that's the country music thing. That's, that's true. It's like a lot of those people are rich, you know, that's like when Jason, I went to see Joe Rogan, everybody, you know, it's like guys who build houses, you know, or have like a contracting company and they got money and they want to put it in Morgan's pocket. Yeah. And it's a great show. You know, he's got big songs that, you know, everyone, everyone loves them. He delivers, he delivers the thing. And then they move on with their lives. Did he turn you into a fan? That's what I was going to ask. Yeah, I kind of like I definitely think I definitely think that there's a there's a feeling in Britain or at least the kind of a certain the like music intellectual class in the UK doesn't engage nearly seriously enough with country. We talked to Snape's about that, actually. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Don't worry. I mean, she's much more learned. I just. It was interesting to see it on the ground and realise how little these people care about England and Europe. Like, the guy, you know, if you go to New York or California or whatever, people are kind of a bit more in touch. But these guys have amazing, happy, prosperous lives. They love Morgan Wallen. to not give a shit about what you're doing in London. It is nice. It's quite chastening and important. It is nice to see people completely free of anything, any thoughts, and just being like, I love this music. I'm going to spend my money to go see it. And it's just like, I'm not thinking about the implications. My kid doesn't need shoes for school.

I'm going to go see – I think I need the orchestra section when I see him at the O2. It is – I mean, O2 is big, too. I mean, that's wild. Yeah, like his first gig he'd ever played in Europe, he sells out the O2. And yet, you know, he's barely been covered in any press over here. It's just this thing that happens without anyone noticing it. It's a groundswell. Well, speaking of the O2 arena, can you explain to us – maybe this would have been better for Snape's question, but – You're all we've got now. Can you explain why and how recording artist Pink is so big over there? I have no idea. I have no idea. I think it's like a legacy thing from the alts. She had a few humongous songs, and that's just carried on. You probably don't listen to a lot of Pink, but maybe just as a British historian or a master of your culture, because Pink is obviously a big person everywhere in the world, but specifically, she would never play a music festival in America. She would never play Coachella. She would never play any of these cool festivals. She just sort of has to play like... Jason, she's playing in stadiums. Yeah, she plays in stadiums. Literally. No, no, she's huge, but like... Literally. But over there, she's cool. She's cool over there. She will headline festivals. yeah i mean cool not cool cool cool for british did she pay fealty at some point maybe did she like kiss the european ring she probably did well she's also very because that she's very big that's a real thing in australia and you know australia and england are closely linked as you know of course yeah basically the same place i mean i think there's definitely a phenomenon of people who do i think stanley tucci is like the key example of this of like a guy who's kind of mid-famous but because he has yeah you know deigns to live in barnes or wherever he lives in west london and he's married to an english woman in england he's now this like unimpeachable like high oh interesting so he married a british chick and moved there so now he's british he's been accepted yeah exactly yeah he's married to emily blunt's sister who's a literary agent he's married to emily blunt's sister yeah wait stanley tucci is yeah

You guys haven't had a tooth. This is what I'm talking about, you know. Well, I only talk about how he's gay. I did not know that he was married. I mean, everyone knows he's gay, right? Right, okay, yeah. I mean, I know I was more on the married to a woman thing, but, you know, I guess they're not necessarily gay. Would he be the first actor who was gay but married to a woman? Come on, don't play dumb with us, Ed. Yeah, that's okay. I mean, he was very convincing in that film with Colin Firth. Yes, exactly, exactly. Where he played the 70-year-old novelist with a six-pack. That's very realistic. Yeah, I just looked up Pink in 2023. Just months ago, Pink has her own festival. In the UK. She has a touring festival all over the place where Gwen Stefani, Brandi Carlile, Pat Benatar open for her, as well as group love. That's Lilith Farah, baby. She doesn't play festivals. She is a festival. Hyde Park. Yeah. You know, she's it. It's wild. She's like as big as Blackpink. As Blackpink. Pink and Blackpink are equally big. No, they're not. There's a joke in there somewhere. There's a joke in there somewhere. Well, I think Blackpink's kind of over. Is that not true, Jason? Is it waning? I'm asking. We're in between album cycles. Okay. I just feel like it was inescapable. No, no. I have no idea. I have no idea. But I am a fan for our listeners. The new song from Twice, the better K-pop group musically. Someone was complaining about Blackpink. I saw Blackpink in... No, not saw them, but they just played Hyde Park. in the summer and someone who'd been there that for that night was talking about some hammers and saying it was the most genius merchandise they'd ever seen hold on like they have like the to nail something into the wall so blackpink have a song and with this song there's a thing like a move which is that all of the crowd waves these little plastic hammers pink hammers oh okay okay yeah it's like a light stick little hammer and it's like okay for this song everyone has to wave a hammer which means that all of the kids that are there are like okay well i can't not have a hammer yeah yeah and the hammer's and the hammer's like a hundred dollars yeah so it looks like something that a woman would pleasure herself with or two guys maybe i mean it looks like a sex toy

And then, yeah, like your kid will scream and slit their wrists if you don't buy them this $72 plastic light-up thing. The idea for these shows is they all light up sort of in sync to the song at the right time, and it looks like this cool kind of crowd visual thing. I don't know, maybe they use Bluetooth. You can't just get people to put their phones up and stuff. That's archaic. You can't make money off that. I mean, what's the fucking point? That's actually very cool. I love that. People go to shows like that ready to spend their parents' money. That's what the point is. You've got to milk them for all they're worth. We'll get out of the Oasis reunion. Yeah, exactly. There's a website called K-Pop Exchange, and people are making plush hammer stick covers. Where you know like the little beanies or that they have little like ears on them to make you look like a cute little bunny or something like that. Or like they have those but for your black pink hammer. As well as a holding stand for it to keep it on your desk. It just feels violent. That's why I'm so impressed with it. You know that it feels like giving kids hammers is the wrong signal. It's violent. It's violently expensive. I guess I didn't think about that angle. I mean, it's a bit on the nose. It was a little... It hit the nail on the head is what it did. So, Ed, Ash Wednesday coming up. Any plans? I know that it's better than spending a hellish time on a hellish Valentine's Day. I'd like to hear more about that. This is the problem with having such a diverse remit, I think. Because in my head, I was thinking, I was like, okay, well, maybe they'll like... want to talk about articles that i've written uh you know a while back or whatever when we were meeting then obviously the first thing that comes up is a piece that i did about yeah so this is like the the collision of uh wait did you write about this ad oh it's weird isn't it what a coincidence the uh the coincidence of ash wednesday and valentine's day i thought was kind of funny yeah i thought uh you know ash wednesday is obviously a day of traditional like christian self-flagellation and restraint

And Valentine's Day is a day where you, you know, go and buy a pizza shaved like a heart. And, you know, I thought that maybe this Ash Wednesday was a good opportunity to spare your loved one that kind of deal. I did not know that Ash Wednesday was so close to Valentine's Day, so bravo for finding the storyline. I just assumed that there were multiple Ash Wednesdays throughout the year. Clearly, I'm not a religious person. Actually, I thought that too, Jason, to be fair. I thought Ash Wednesday happened like four times a year. I mean, yeah. I only know when it's Ash Wednesday when Mark Wahlberg... Ash posts on me. Not a lot of Sunday school going on. No, no, no. I meant to ask you guys about how you found Graydon Carter, who's another friend we have in common. How we found him? I mean, he's the greatest. He's a fucking knob. Just kidding. Chris loves him. I loved making fun of him, and he loved making fun of me, but we... Him and I do not get along. Because you had him on just after I'd met him. Yes, yeah. I mean, look, he's the only guy that can make anything good. I mean, it's crazy. Vanity Fair needs him. We all need him. And Airmail is going to sell for $50 million to the roofers. And it's going to be good for everybody. It's going to be good for everybody. To the builders. To the builders, yeah. The builders are buying. I'll buy your dinky little newspaper. Let me guess what restaurant I should go to. Oh, the Waverly Inn. I'll check it out. The builder guys buying everything is very cool. It's very interesting. It's funny that rich people want magazines and publications as they're like. play things i i just find it like there's no real path to profitability often but they still want to pump money into it and i just it's it's like the new restaurant as like a vanity project but it just costs a lot more money i i think like i think that's kind of always been the case i mean aside from a couple of windows and you know graden and anna and tina's you know time at conde was

was one of them you know magazines and newspapers have not been like great businesses but they're you know they're fun and they give you influence and there was just this boom just before the incident you know where they didn't have budgets and things but i mean yeah it's great news i think anyone who wants to buy a magazine used to be able to get you laid yeah or being a journalist i think all these builders are buying up newspapers and newsletters now only because they can't remember their digital wallet They want to be buying crypto, but they just forgot their login. What do you reckon is the AML special source? What do you think? Why does it work? I agree with you. I think it's great. Because of Graydon. That's the whole thing. If you look at Vanity Fair now, it's not very good, and that's because he's not there. That's just what it is. I think that people don't like this because it's... It doesn't feel fair, but there are people that really do have like a singular vision. And if they do something that they put their mind to, it's better than everybody else's. And people just don't like that. People want it to be like a democratic team effort. People don't like the idea of someone kind of sitting at the top and making the decisions and touching everything that comes out. That's why scaling is a fool's errand. I agree with you, Chris. That's a wise insight, and I like that. And that's why I hope to never have an employee for how long ago. I just don't like... They're not going to like my ideas, and then they're going to get me canceled. I mean, when you read about him, or even a lot of people in these positions, less so now, but it's like they literally look at everything, which seems insane, but that's why something is good, is because there's attention paid to details that other people might overlook, and that's what makes the big difference. And I just think most people are either lazy or don't want to do that, because obviously it's hard. I think... Yeah, I remember. I spoke to Anna last year, and she said that she still read every word that they physically printed, which is obviously, like, diminishing. Yeah, she's like, well, not the Pitchfork stuff, but, you know. She's like, I didn't check out the Tame Impala review. That wasn't for me. She's not a big optimist, Anna. But I think, you know, I mean, it speaks to this thing, doesn't it, where everyone, where you want to be.

You want to be part of like a little gang, right? You want to be part of Graydon's gang or Anna's gang. Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, less so now. It's validating. Unfortunately, less so now because young people don't get it and don't understand that you can like actually learn from someone who's older. They're not just a boomer. You know, they don't that like doesn't process. I mean, I'm sure there's still a generation that will fetishize all that stuff because it's that's what we do. We always look, you know. back and and then decide that is cool as kids so i mean it's it's dwindling though i think like the desire to to do that well oh i just i'll just got a sub stack i don't need this you know to be part of a little gang well to be part of to be part of something bigger than yourself is seems like it's less attractive than it ever has been the desire to work for yourself and be your own boss and be a brand is more important now than security I think as an overall with a certain demographic. I think it's like, I'm never going to be able to buy a house anyway. I eat avocado toast every day. Fuck it. It's kind of the vibe. I can still be a brand. Yeah, but I can be a brand. I think it was Vox. Rebecca Jennings, I believe, is the writer's name. She's doing a really good job. It's cool. She wrote a story about how no matter what now, you just have to be a brand. I remember... that in the early days of like Instagram and influencing, you know, if you were a writer at, you know, a magazine, like a, especially women's magazine, it was kind of like, it was understood that you would make an effort to, to, you know, on social media. Like you couldn't just write your stories and do your job. You kind of it was kind of like politely, politely. You were politely nudged to participate. And I think that is I mean, overall, that's bad. We we we don't need everyone to be posting on Instagram if their job is to write stories. It makes you less fireable, I think. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Well, in a competitive environment, if the difference if two people are doing totally a similar job.

One of them is hot and has 1.7 on Instagram, then guess who the job's gone to? No, no, of course. I know that's how the world works, and I'm accepting of that. I just don't know if that's the best for us as a society. I don't know. For sure. I don't know if that's – I mean, look, I love judging people based on their appearance. Don't get me wrong. But I think there is something to be said about being good at your job and kind of wanting to just do your job and not be – chained to your phone all fucking day but what if you're good at podcasting and also like for a podcaster not bad to look at you know what i mean sure sure no relatively all things considered you know what i mean yeah i think that i think that if you're Obviously, if you're able to exploit your looks for financial gain, you should. I think that's what this country is built on, but I'm saying... And you guys are doing a great job. Thank you, thank you. There are people, though, who are great... I do need to be posting more reels, if I can be honest. I mean, thank you for coming clean. Thank you for coming clean. Well, speaking of selling out and exploiting, where do you land on sort of... being a writer or a critic of something, maybe a restaurant, for example, and accepting gifts in exchange for favorable words. Can you be bought? Absolutely, yeah. How much integrity do you have? Okay, good answer. I think, well, I mean, my big thing, you know, is I just think that there's this whole network of nonsense. uh goes on all the time around restaurants and pr and media i don't know if it's quite as bad my sense is it's a bit less bad in the states um i remember i was i was a year this is years and years ago i went to like is it the library bar at the nomad or something yes yes yes and i i went i went there i was booked in there and approached it like uh you know like an english journalist approaches being booked in which is like i took three friends and we like drank for two hours uh i left like ten dollar tip and walked out sure sure legend and you know i was like okay thank you this is this is a good experience um you know i'll be sure to write it up in the in the telegraph someday and then i saw the guy who'd been like the maitre d about like six years later and his first line was you owe me four hundred dollars

I was like, oh, shit, sorry, I didn't really appreciate that. But, you know, there's this whole, like, restaurant critics is one thing, and that's a very visible, you know, that's a very visible part of food writing, you know, the most visible. But they're all very grand about it now. They're like, well, I would never take a freebie. I feel like they've always been grand about it, though. They've worked in secrecy, and, you know, there's this code of ethics, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and booking anonymously. I'm wondering, personally, As I'm starting to do it more, are these rules that anyone cares about being abided by anymore? Not for you. That's what I'm saying. The rules only apply. I mean, nobody's giving me a budget to buy this food anyway. No, but the rules only apply to people who choose to live that way, kind of. You know what I'm saying, Ed? No one expects that from Jason. Nobody expects integrity from Jason. I don't even mean that. I don't even mean that. I just mean like if you want to be held to that standard, your life is going to be harder and you're not going to be able to have the same tone that you have is what I'm saying. If you're open, you know, you see these influencers and they're posting and like every time. There's an ad, you know, it's like hashtag ad, hashtag ad, hashtag ad, hashtag ad. I don't care. I don't care. I know what your life is like. It's needless all the time. I'm under no impression that you've scrimped and scraved to go to this, you know, eco resort in the Seychelles. I don't care. I just want to look at the nice pictures of you having a nice time and like eating out of a coconut or whatever. Yeah, I mean, that's the problem. That's legally, legally, you have to do that. I mean, it's literally, at least here, it's government mandate. I want to see if you decided to tie the top of your bathing suit in the sideways way or just regular. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. I'm not very fast who's getting the points on it at the end. I just think, okay, well, there's an advertising regulation. Yeah, but I think that everybody, I mean, I think that that style of, I don't know if anybody,

Like, I don't know if we need the anonymous. Like, I wonder how much it matters and how much it actually, how much like that kind of review can really change a restaurant's business for better or worse at this point. Yeah. You know, and I think it's like, you know, the hype machine in restaurants in London is so out of control. Yeah. You know, it's become very counterproductive. You know, the latest place is this pub, the Devonshire, right? Which I guess you might have seen like posted everywhere. I mean, it's a great pub. It's like, it's combo of like Guinness. You know, they sell 20,000 pints of Guinness a week or something. And it's just become this thing where everyone has to be there. And as a result has become, you know, quite an unpleasant place to drink in. So it's strictly a pub. Are they offering a kind of well-considered pub menu as well? Yeah, it's a well-considered pub menu. And if you want a table, you've got to be, you know, online at like 9.01. at exactly the right day. So it's been fucked out, as they say. It's good, it's just a steakhouse, you know, so you'd be so much, most people would be so much better off just going to another, you know, it's good, there's no shade on what it's offering, but it's just that the effect of... the effect of that mass hysteria is to ruin the experience yeah no no i mean i that's that's many restaurants i mean i like to go to a place when it's new and buzzing obviously to check out the hotties and get the vibes but at a certain at a certain point i mean i think everything gets ruined i mean you know it's like all the All the restaurants of celebrities go to in New York, you can't. I mean, it's impossible. Going to Via Corotta is insane. You can't actually go there anymore because Taylor Swift went there once. You can't do anything. Well, I talked about this in the horses piece. A restaurant like this, like this Devonshire pub, they need one of the owners, the employees or something to have a scandal or a cancellation, and that will reduce the amount of traffic by 30% to 40%, making it... inhabitable and pleasant to attend again yeah and then it can go back to normal because i'm sure they don't like the fact that the restaurant has become a fucking tourist attraction you know 20 000 it's not fun you're making money but you're like killing yourself and it's no you're not offering the product that you want to offer i think this is a good lesson generally right like everything needs to be cancelled once in a while yeah every person everything you just need to spend a bit of time in the cleansing fire

Trim in the garden. What is the deal? Can you do a quick explainer before we go about strakers? Because I swear to God, I've heard so much about this. And then it's like in the Daily Mail. So I'm like, is this hot chef really that diabolically bad? Or is it just like because he's rich? He just doesn't care, I don't think. Well, and can you explain this situation for our people who don't know what you're talking about? Thomas Straker is this, he's this like kind of... you know, handsome, you know, vaguely posh chef who had a really big lockdown doing, like, cooking videos. He smashed it during lockdown. Like, making videos of butter and stuff. And then finally opened a physical restaurant. But he posted this picture. I'm getting the details wrong, but he posted this picture, like, of him, of his staff. And they were just, like, all white dudes. And he was like, well, check out my great team. And then everyone was like, well, this is just white dudes. And he replied just being like, I don't care. And he famously said, white people are the best chefs. And then he got in trouble after that. No, I don't think he was just, I honestly don't think he was thinking about that stuff very much. But I mean, it was funny because it was an unforced error, right? I mean, I find funny when these things happen to people where there's like, you know, sometimes you do stuff. or whatever like things happen but sometimes these guys just come like no one was asking him how diverse his kitchen was right he just decided to post a photo yeah yeah yeah yeah that was fatal like why why do that i i i rung up all of my closest friends who are the best chefs and they just happened to all be white that's just the way it worked out he was he didn't do it on purpose it just happened but also that in itself could be considered an issue yeah and I think, yeah, he's just like an old-fashioned, he seems to me, I'm kind of into it. He's like an old-fashioned chef who wants to make money and doesn't care. And he just, you know, serves fish absolutely drenched in butter. And he's making a killing. And I'm sure that restaurant will be full for years and years and years. And his butter will be in the supermarket. Because I thought he was, I thought he was like canceled. And then he was on the cover of Arena Own Plus, like skateboarding on the pass. And I was like, damn.

I guess this guy's good to go then. So he's basically the Shane Gillis of British cooking. He got cancelled and became more famous. How is the food? There's no palace deals yet for cancelled food rights. Unfortunately. When's that coming? That's all I want to know. I'll let you know. It's neck and neck who's going to get there. I want to see this supreme Mario Batali I've heard is coming down the pipe. No way. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. I wanted to believe. I know. I understand. Do I show up wearing an orange croc? Friend of... Splash out. Friend of your show is Sam Hine. Yes. I had this moment the other day sort of thinking about clothes where I'm doing this piece about Jonathan Anderson. So I'm interviewing Jonathan Anderson. And so they sent me to Louisville in Paris, which is not my natural environment. Sure, sure. the atelier is not for you normally but this time and i had to go to this show and i was like obviously okay there's going to be you know photographers there and i realized that i was just like i'm not gonna you know i'm not a fashion guy i don't i don't have the right clothes i don't do the thing it's fine so i just was like okay i'm just gonna dress like journalist smart like i put on a little jumper and a tie I was like, I'm going to be invisible in this place. And I was going so well. You know, I dodged all of the street style people. And, you know, deathly silent. I was like, I'm going to be in and out here. Frictionless past the street style photographers is what you're saying. No problem. And I sashayed past, like, all the weird handsome male celebrities that he'd assembled there. It was like Jamie Dornan. Yes, yes. It was a murderer's row. And then I was... And so I was like, I'm going to get away with this. You know, I'm not going to, no one's going to see me. I'm not going to be, you know, I'm not going to get in any trouble. I'm not going to be cast in the new Dior ad. I'm home free. In and out. And then I sit down and look up and just see that Sam Hine is like opposite me, but like raised a bit. And so I'm like, oh, I'm going to be in the back of a lot of these people. And I was. And I had.

So within about 10 minutes, I had these messages. I think Raven was like, you look like you've come out of a time machine. Someone else said I look like a clock that had been reanimated. So you went into it assuming I'm going to wear, they call them in the production world, like stage blacks. Right. I'm going to dress as... As inconspicuous as possible, they're going to take a look at me and not say or think anything. Yeah. And then now people are using these amazing texts and tweets to describe how odd you look. Well, how invisible, you know, what's invisible? Exactly, yeah. Like, maybe All in Black would have been better, like a guy in a puppet show or something. Yes, exactly. Or a magician's assistant. But then I feel like All in Black... All in black is tough, too. I thought I'd gone for, like, pure neutral. But then, you know, Charlie Baker, who edits The Fence, was like, you're serving Latin teacher. Yeah, I mean, I get called, when I wear a tie with jeans and a blazer, I'm often like, he thinks he's pulling off this substitute teacher, you know, kind of thing. And I'm like, I've never, I don't, no substitute teacher ever wore jeans and a Charvet tie. Fuck yourself, okay? Yeah. Okay? I was just dressed as a substitute teacher. But, you know, it's impossible. Yeah, it's a good look. It's like invisibility is impossible. I don't know how you would go about that in a Loewe context. Well, I'll tell it. Don't ask your seat to be moved away from Sanhain, man. Made to wear clothes, you know. He's a vortex. You're going to get sucked in. All right, Ed. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, guys. It was a pleasure. On How Long Gone. It was a blast. And we can read you at the Telegraph. the fence, anywhere else we should be checking? Uh, yeah, a little, uh, no, that's, those are the big ones. Okay. Okay. I'll see you next time. There's a natural disaster in California and you're in Europe. Yeah. Really appreciate it. We'll see you soon. Okay. Amazing. Thanks a lot guys. That was fun.