439. - Jack Wagner

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. I am now how long gone. We're in Los Angeles. We are currently being told to stay off the roads if we can because of some rain. Jason, have you driven a car today or are you kind of keeping it safe? Fuck no. Are you kidding me? That's a death wish. Okay, good. I wanted to make sure because I couldn't do this without you, so I'm making sure that you're kind of staying safe. Yeah, I'm sheltering in place. Unfortunately, the only real issue is when you got a couple puppers, a couple four-legged friends who you don't speak English and you can't tell them that it's raining outside. We have to wait. And you have to hold your pee-pee? No, I know. So that part sucks. That part does suck. That seems like a challenge. I had to drive very early this morning, and it was torrential out there. But luckily the roads were clear, and I was able to make it to and from my destination unscathed. Thank you to all of our frontline workers. keeping everything safe it was such a bummer too because we were walking the dogs and it was just like fuck it we just gotta go like it doesn't matter if it's raining anymore we just gotta do it you know which you know which just sucks you just instantly like okay i mean i would socks are wet my underwear is wet within one minute you know you're just like i would say and at the end carolyn was like

Damn, you should have pulled up that Supreme poncho. You kind of fucked up. Oh, I didn't know the Supreme poncho. I was going to say, with the amount of arterics that you have in your closet, you should be fine. But the Supreme poncho, I feel like it's more of a decorative piece maybe than a protective layer. No, no, no. It's a legit. Okay. I mean, you know, it doesn't take much to have a poncho work. You just get a sheet of plastic and cut a hole in it to put your head. But I had to explain to her how kind of the resale market works. And if I take it out of the package, then it's basically useless. Hold on. So I just want to understand. So the Supreme Poncho that you... copped, quote-unquote. Now, you're not planning... You're planning to... Quote-unquote! Well... Is it still kind of alleged? Like, we don't know if it's for sure? I haven't seen it, so until I kind of see it... Oh, come on. Okay, you gotta inspect it. Yeah, but I... So, I guess I was under the impression you were gonna wear it proudly, but now you're telling me that you might keep it... one-to-rock, one-to-stock style? Well, once I did a little research on the brand, it turns out that stuff from this company, Supreme, is worth a pretty penny. Let's just say I did my homework. Okay, wow, that's great. Well, big news this week was that the company, Supreme, did switch over to Shopify. They joined us over at Shopify. Are you serious? That's right. So I just want to give them a big round of applause to kind of getting with the... uh you know the 21st century there goes there goes the neighborhood once supreme switches over to shopify like what is nothing sacred if it slows our cart down we're gonna have a fucking problem i'll tell you that what's next we're gonna get like the the portrait t-shirt with like jake paul on it or something i mean that's a dream and maybe that's something we should make we can talk about that off off mic because i have some important news to discuss with you I could only imagine what it could be. Well, you know I'm a fan of reality programming and something you and I don't relate on, but there's something that got announced today that has the internet going nuts, and it's MTV's new gay reality show, The Real Friends of WeHo. So they're coming into my neighborhood.

and filming a group of friends, which means guys that are just gay and hate each other. I guess just how they kind of live, but it debuts January 20th at 9 p.m. What do you mean by they? Well, I just assume they aren't real friends. Because if the group consists of some of Hollywood's most influential and successful LGBTQ plus celebrities, personalities, and entrepreneurs. So I'm just guessing, based on how celebrities work, that they might not all get along. And it's sort of the catalyst for the success of the whole program, actually. I'm going to guess that, yes. It depends. Yeah, yeah. The whole Nielsen rating system depends on how much they hate each other. But you said it has the Internet going nuts. Does it actually have the internet going nuts or just your gay little corner of the internet? No, I think people are – well, I think this is something that has – this kind of show, people are kind of like, why hasn't this existed before? It seems like such an easy layup. You know what I mean? Take the housewives kind of style and add gay guys. They're going to be more drunk. They're going to be more bitchy. It seems like a win. These are the people that the housewives stole all their swag from. Exactly. Look, they're taking a swing for the fences here. This has got the coveted RuPaul's Drag Race slot. It's right after RuPaul's Drag Race. I'm dead. I'm dead. But just quickly to go through the cast for you, Brad Goreski, you of course know him from his time at E. He's actually the only name I recognize. Todrick Hall is a multi-hyphenate, much like you and I, who has worked with superstars like Beyonce, Taylor, and RuPaul, singer, actor, choreographer. He's amassed millions of followers on multiple platforms. Okay, so is Todd Rick, so that's just the name Todd and the name Rick combined? Two of the straightest names, you put them together, one of the gayest names. Sweet irony. I know, it is. Well, I'm looking at him right now and he's wearing a beret. Curtis Hamilton. You ever met a gay guy named Rick? I guess not since the 80s. Just pickle. Curtis Hamilton is a newly out actor who's known for his roles. F1 driver?

Curtis Hamilton, known for his roles in shows like Surviving Compton, Charming the Hearts of Men, The King of Napa, and Insecure. Insecure is the only show I've ever heard of. None of those shows are really insecure. Surviving Compton, and what was the other one? Well, this is the best part, that he recently came out, and he's known for a show called Charming the Hearts of Men. So maybe he had to come out. Where do these shows live? Tubi? Bro, I don't know. They're all on Bounce XL. You didn't say. I mean, it could be. They don't specify if it's a YouTube show or not. You know what I mean? But then next we have Dorian Renaud, the CEO of Buda, one of the top black-owned skincare companies in the world. So this guy might actually be rich. Butta. Yeah, this is B-U-T-T-A-H. Of course, B-U-T-T-A-H. Yeah, I had a feeling. Next is James Vaughn, J-A-Y-M-E-S. He's an entertainment news host who, along with his husband, Jonathan Bennett, recently launched Outbound, a global LGBTQ plus travel company. While he juggles his responsibilities with Outbound, he's also considering a return to hosting. So that's kind of a cliffhanger. Bro, none of these people are famous at all. Hold on. We're not. Not even in the slightest. We're not done yet. Joey Zawzig dubbed the – Because we start at the most famous and we – Worked out. Probably work our way down. So it's not going to get better. Joey Zawzig dubbed the internet's best friend by Good Morning America. Zawzig is a social media influencer and entrepreneur, celebrated for his outgoing personality, messages of positivity, common sense advice, and, of course, humor. Okay, yeah, I mean, that's the last one. Zalzig? Z-A-U-Z-I-G. Nobody famous is named Zalzig. You have a manager that instantly changes your name to something else. If you even have a lick of steam under your ass. Joey's pretty good looking. His lips are definitely enhanced. Not to shame or anything, but, you know. Who's aren't in WeHo? But I'm interested to see how this plays out. And also...

I want to know how many of these people have had sex with each other already. Do you know what program, what station, what channel this is going to live? Oh, it's weird. It says it debuted. It doesn't say the network, but it's an MTV produced show, but I don't think it's on MTV. Okay, okay. Hold on. No, it's fine. It's no big deal. I don't really actually give a shit. No, it is MTV. Okay, it is MTV. So they're going to kick off Rob Dyrdek and my girl Chanel West Coast for one 30-minute slot per week. and kind of get the gaze and visibility. Okay, so MTV just has gay stuff now. Rob Diedrich, one of the gayest guys of all time. Don't do that. We can all kind of agree on that, right? Oh, because he's just so masculine and powerful and good at physical stuff? No, he's just low. He ain't low, bro. You ain't low with it, Rob. He do seem a little low with the straight brim. I've been at the... I've saddled up at the urinal next to him up in Duck Club. Little Rob trying to look over. I've told you about my time at the Fantasy Factory, right, when I visited? You must have, yeah. It was pretty cool. I got to do the foam pit, which is pretty sick. That's so awesome. Only him and Steve Aoki have those now. It's a lost art. I feel like it's not sustainable, and I feel like that's maybe something. If you have one of those foam ball pits inside the living room of your house, you know what that means? non-stop pussy fucking you are just constantly covered well we need to also talk about um just quickly before we get to our guests uh your boy prince harry they're releasing some kind of become some uh excerpts from his uh upcoming memoir and he's saying because he was in the army he's saying he's killed motherfuckers he said he lied about doing cocaine he did he did try it which means he did it 100 days in a row of course and then And then he's saying his brother roughed him up a little bit. Big Willie. Do not Big Willie. So Big Willie was a little physically abusive with him as a child? I don't know. I think physical abuse. Or like as an adult.

dramatizes it i believe it's probably some teenage hijinks you know like you said something you said i look stupid and i grabbed your shirt and shoved you down i mean what what brother doesn't do that to a brother well of course but for the dawn of time yeah but we're not trying to uh leave the royal family and and ruin their lives and yeah my life isn't under such a magnifying glass as him so he he said he caught 25 bodies in Afghanistan. He said he probably can't even keep track. It's like you and your bodies. You don't even know. He's like shy, glizzy. He's got so many stains that he can't even keep track. No, I mean, it's very interesting, though, the lengths that he's going to to make a little bit of money. Because I just feel like they could have gone the Obama- The guy produces more films than Bruckheimer. He could have just gone Michelle and Barack vibes and been like, all right, we're going to produce movies and stuff for Netflix. We'll give us $300 million. You don't have to air out your dirty laundry for the extra million for the book deal. Well, we don't know that because they're like, all right, so what do you got? And he's like, oh, I don't know. I thought you guys were going to do that. And they're like, no, what are the stories that you can bring with your unique perspective and your position? I see. And he's like, I did coke once. My brother yelled at me. And they're like, okay, well, we need to kind of tell your tell-all story because... Otherwise, this is a contract infringement or something like that. Well, no, I just feel like a memoir deal for Prince Harry, the numbers are probably staggering as far as memoir deals go. He's got to make as many dollars as Avatar 2 first weekend or else the whole thing. I think I read he had to sell like 1.4 million copies to break even or something like that. Yeah, they gave him a fortune, but my point is... Which doesn't seem like that difficult. No, it won't be difficult. He can knock that out in Hudson News. Well, there's a possibility, though, that the British people hate him so much now they might not buy the book, and that's kind of who I would imagine would buy the most books, because he's disrespecting the family.

I guess my point is there's plenty of ways for him to make money without having to air out his family, so it just proves he really hates his family. So I think that does make him – I like him more because of that than him catching 25 bodies. 1,000%. I say go for it, Harry, you little pussy. We do have a guest today, a friend of the show, Jack Wagner, who has a new podcast about ghosts or something, I think. Yeah, it's about ghosts and stuff. It's called Otherworld. But it's not really in my interest area, but it seems to be quite popular. So I'm very happy. I'm happy for Jack. Yeah, you know, we're also happy for him. He is a friend of ours in real life and as well as the pods sphere. And, yeah, it's cool to see any friend of yours have a project take off. Culturally and financially, even though it's about a subject matter that we don't necessarily know or care about whatsoever. Yeah, I mean, it's doing so well financially, he was able to move to Altadena. So you already know that the money is stacking when you get out there. Yeah, bro. Well, the weapons you have to buy to kill the coyotes alone, it can get pricey. It can get pricey. Oh, come on. That's not funny. You're right. I'm sorry. Coyotes do matter. All right. Jack a jingle. Lovely. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable.

And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. You're okay with just abruptly starting a podcast like a conversation, right? I'm a professional. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a professional, unprofessional like that. This is not my first rodeo. Even though most pods are, you know, your new podcast, Otherworld, it's a very produced show, and there's a start and beginning. There's music beds, and it's actually produced where... It's so produced, and it's so good. It's called Otherworld, and it's so good. It's so produced, and it's so good. Okay, all right. We're going to let you get into your little... That's Jack Wagner. Make some noise for him. You have any plugs on your way out? No. Hitting number seven on the Spotify charts this year. smash hit new show that everybody should check out if they can. But what category is it in? Let's get to it. Yeah, what category is it? Social, like whatever category This American Life is in those shows. Social. Like arts and entertainment. But no, number seven, number seven.

Dude, I got up pretty high for a minute there in all podcasts. That's great. Yeah, that's great. But briefly, like briefly. Whatever. It could have been minutes. It counts. I had 10 songs on the iTunes charts at once, too, and it was only for a couple hours, but it still counts. Okay. So you're a storyteller, right? Yeah, I tell stories. Well, I mean, the way that we podcast, it's not like that. Have you listened to How Long Gone Before? Of course. I'm just kidding. Are you editing the ghost podcast yourself? Yes, and I have another editor named Theo. And as of today, I think I might have a third editor coming on also named Theo. Are you serious? Yeah. Double Theo? So you and the Theos are just making this thing happen. And what is the cadence you're looking to do on this podcast? What are we looking at? Once a week? Once a month? Well, dude, it's been evolving. It's constantly evolving. It was originally going to be six episodes long, like limited. But I ended up recording like 20. Nobody knows this, but it's just going to not stop. I'm just going to keep going. We're going indefinite. Does your partner at iHeart know that, or you're just going to drop that on them? All indie, dude. It's all indie. Okay, but I'm sure you've had some of the big podcast houses sniffing around in Altadino. What's going on? Not houses. House of Stitcher. Welcome to the House of Stitcher. There's been sniffs for sure, but it's going to be a while before that happens, I think. Why? I mean, you're already coming out of pocket to pay the Theos. You might as well put that on somebody else's payroll. You know what I'm saying? I don't know how much you guys want to get in the weeds of pod shop talk. We're already knee deep, brother. For listeners at home, he just took his shirt off. Revealing another shirt. Revealing another shirt. To be clear. We don't need all the details, Jack. We don't need all the details. It's like, there's a lot of nuance to this editing, so it's not like a chat show where I can just toss a file at whatever iHeart editor they have. It's like, dude, some of these take so long. Your storytelling. So you're saying there's not a lot of nuance to editing this show, which is a personal affront to Dim Jeans, is what it sounds like to me. No, he's not saying that.

The editing that I'm doing, it's just a linear cut of like, here's a conversation for an hour, and it's going to be in that order, but where you're like, okay, five minutes of this convo goes here, and maybe that would be better at the end instead of the beginning, and we've got to get a new clean take on that person. The stakes are low. If you make a weird edit... you're not going to get an email from somebody being like, that person's fucking lying. They're lying to you. They're making this up. Did you hear this part? So Chris, I think Jack is saying, Chris, if you thought you hate the fans, just imagine if you did an extraterrestrial, ghostly, otherworldly podcast. Why do you think people are so... I guess, uh, involved in something that doesn't matter. Like why on earth would someone like a story? The story is entertaining. So why, why are they so concerned with like these minute details that are you talking about your own podcast right now or mine? No, no yours. Uh, I like somebody being like they were lying. It's like, how do you care that much if you were entertained? Or is it just about being right? Oh, sure. I know what you're saying. I thought you were saying the ghosts are minute details. No, no, no, no. In my life, the ghosts are minute details. But in yours, they're the star. Okay, got it. Well, I don't know. That was a good flip. No, you're right. And I don't know the audience well enough to figure that out yet. And I definitely have to stop reading reactions. But for the most part, obviously, the response is very positive. But it's an adjustment because... People have very strong opinions about this, you know, and there's like diehard believers. There's like people that are way too skeptical. Like you thought people had strong opinions about Brandon Wardell. Just wait until you get into fucking this stuff. Yeah. I mean, it's a and it's a broader audience, you know, it's like. Yeah. There's like elderly people listening to the show. Elderly people. We probably got some people in jail listening. Cool people, celebs, freaks, all that. That'd be sick. Also, I just realized you said you have two editors named Theo. One of them just came on. Any correlation to the discovery of Theophilus London? Did he get discovered? They found him last night, I heard. Oh, really? Okay. That's good news. Don't play dumb with us, Jack. No, I really don't know. But yeah, I do think that because when you first launched this,

I was like, oh, he's really going for the big leagues because this is getting into true crime vibes, which we all know is the podcast industry, Cash Cow. Cussing the wide net versus us. We're a niche pod. We're fly fishing in the L.A. River. We're just pulling up little dinkers, and you're over there. Maybe a great white will come in. Maybe a sperm whale. That would be sick. I mean. I have a lot of problems with the true crime world for sure, but I think that's like – Let's go ahead and get into that. Is it because they're liars or is it because – Because it's not true. Yeah, or is it because you just find that that is not – it's not scratching the itch for you, so that's why you created your own kind of version? Oh, well, dude, I mean there's many reasons to not like the true crime world. Like, I mean – Let me think of how to say this. He's trying to find a way that won't be offensive to say that it's a female trait to like true crime podcast? No, actually, I think the worst host that I can think of is male, who's like a probably true crime doer himself, if I had to guess. Oh, so you're saying that some of these true crime guys get a little too deep in the fantasy and they start doing some killings themselves. I think there's, I don't know, I think like a certain type of, dude, some of those shows like, are a little exploitative i think is basically what i think about yeah some of the true crime stuff where it's like especially when it's not like a famous case it's not like they're talking about ted bundy they're talking about like somebody somebody who just got murdered like a couple weeks ago and they're playing the 911 call without the consent and being like oh my god you know like but now is the argument is the argument about that like this is public domain and we're doing a service is that like what they're trying to to kind of spin it as i don't they don't even realize that they're doing something wrong they're just so eager to hit it big as the best true crime journalist in the world that they they don't even realize that they're breaking any journalistic rules of integrity and not all shows but there's like definitely ones out there that start to feel inappropriate like i always think about like dude what if this was like my dad that got murdered and then i'm suddenly seeing like my name dropped on like the classy ladies true crime pod power

And they're like, I think the sun did it. The classy lady. I think the sun did it. And then that's slanderous to my good name. This came up a lot with the Jeffrey Dahmer thing on Netflix because it was like people were arguing that the victim's family should be compensated and all this stuff because their story was used on TV. And I was like, I just don't think that's how it works. Whether that's right or wrong, I just don't think that's how it works. It's public domain at that point. No, that's not how – that's a huge famous case. Agreed, but I think the argument was kind of like, well, this was over – this was kind of like done, and now they're dragging it back out for monetary gain long after the fact. But you're right still. It's like public shit. What are you going to do? Well, I think what I'm noticing now is everyone has already done a documentary or a true crime podcast or whatever. on all of these classic things that have happened over the years, and now people, like the guy who killed those girls in Idaho last week or whatever, I feel like people are already optioning that. I feel like the time spent in between the crime and the biopic or the documentary is getting shorter and shorter. And I think there's a certain point where it's too short, where the wounds are still healing. There needs to be how much time in between the crime. And the show, do you think, is the sweet spot is what I'm asking. Me? Both of you classy ladies. You go first, Chris. It depends on how hot the killer is. Off rip. Good point. The guy in Idaho is pretty hot. That thing's going to move quick. Jeffrey Dahmer low-key is zaddy. No, the Idaho guy is a great example. That thing's going to get the Hollywood pipeline because he's hot. And by the way, there's like a spectrum for all of these podcasts. Like there's some that are. horribly offensive and some that are i think like serious and probably doing good work so that's podcast in general some of these people though think they're like doing something important like they're like i'm doing the work that the real journalists and the police officers aren't doing like like don't fuck with the cats whatever like yeah the internet can use reddit to solve any crime that this little dumb police officer can't kind of thing i mean i don't want to like get on just like talk shit about other podcasts but why um

Maybe that is fitting for... Welcome home, biatch. This is what we do here. This is how long gone we clowning this motherfucker. Exactly. I was trying to listen to one recently, and I'm not going to say what it was, but it's like a pretty big seasonal true crime pod. I gave it like six episodes, and... it was very clear that like they did not uncover any information in the course of investigating this story it was just like doing like every single episode was like basically like a mini documentary about like like oh i miss my brother so much like crying like just kind of like rehashing trauma and under the guise of investigation be like we're going to get down to the answers and they never get down to the answers at a certain point i'm just like dude i'm not listening to this shit anymore it's just like literally just exploiting these people who are still sad yeah you're not like coming any closer to solving this murder there's that and then there's some where it's like it'll be a closed case and they're like did she kill herself like some questions are left unanswered. We're going to get to the bottom of it. And then like the entire podcast is be like, there's one person that we need to talk to. It's the friend that was there and she won't talk to us. And like finally in the final episode, they'll like talk to this person and be like, yeah, she killed herself. I saw her do it. I didn't want to talk to you guys because it happened 10 years ago and I don't like to talk about it. Like, and then it'll just end and it'll be like, it turns out it happened exactly the way the police thought it did. But. We sure had fun along the way, didn't we? We sure made $17,000 on Squarespace ads, didn't we? Well, that's a subject or that's something that I think about a lot in this world because people are so eager to create this content that they get ahead of themselves and don't have an ending or a solution or a resolution at the end. They just start making it. For your podcast, for example, how many episodes? Is there a resolution versus just, like, we'll never know kind of thing? Dude, with the stuff I'm covering, like, I don't know if we'll ever know. I mean, if I ever found, like, anything out, I would probably be famous for it. Okay, okay. So, I guess, I don't know. Like, I see some documentaries. Like, before, a documentary used to just be, like, here's a thing that happened. We're documenting it. And now, in the sensationalized Netflix blah-biddy-blah world.

There has to be like, and then this crazy shit happened and everything changed. Yes. And then there's like an ending. There's a resolution. There's a big moment of closure that people yearn for or almost demand out of this type of content anymore. I know. I don't know why they do that. Because it's more entertaining. Because it's like these conversations have already come up, you know, like with like, oh, what would an other world TV show look like? You know, because I don't like the paranormal shows because all of them are like. Hunt for Bigfoot. Me neither. Me neither. Yeah, it's like, hunt for Bigfoot. And then it'll be like, we sent a team out to look for Bigfoot. And here's what they found. Find out next week. And then they never find anything. But they set up... Hold on, quickly, Jack. What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? Does he exist? Are they not finding anything? Chris, you are literally not ready for my thoughts on Bigfoot. You are not ready. Come on, Jack. You can't tease us like that now. Now I want your Bigfoot smoke. How can you paywall us on our own podcast for your Bigfoot take? That's crazy. I had to paywall myself. Just give us a morsel of Bigfoot. I'll give you like a morsel because I have a lot of episodes that are longer and that like are just complicated enough that it's like taking a long time and I got to like release them later. But 50% of my stuff is released. Maybe even like 30% of my recorded stuff. So hold on. So you're saying that you have so much gas in the tank, but in this deep research on all of these great episodes that are forthcoming, you've crossed paths with Bigfoot. No, no. Okay, so. have you at least collaborated with him in any way i wish maybe it could happen but no it's i was gonna say in these ones that are like weirder that i'm still kind of like editing and still interviewing people for it's kind of like uh there's been some like weird themes i've noticed and i started to speculate on like other stuff and then i've gotten a couple submissions related to bigfoot and some other things that make me think i've had like some loose theories and then i've had some crazy submissions that sort of

line up with it and i had one interview that i still am not sure what to make of but the guy like multiple times i've had to ask him like mid-interview like dude are you fucking insane like are you he's like no i'm not like how do i know jason has jason has to do that during some of our interviews as well so it's good to know i have a doctor's note already on my apple wallet i just show it it's over in five seconds it's not a big fucking deal i had to stop the interview probably like two hours in it's One of the only times I've had to do that where I was like, dude. I've got to pee so bad, bro. Yeah, I'm like, this is great. I believe you, but I have a headache from hearing this stuff. I need a break. And I still need to circle back with this dude because it's just hearing something that's so far outside of the realm of what I understand. And it's disorienting. So he's just dropping so much information on you. You're like, this is good pod. This is good tape I'm getting. I just need a mental break. Like your little Zoom recorder is like, please, no more. It's too gnarly. It was just a lot to process at once. So you're saying you had to take a break. You're on a side pie. You get a couple slices. You come back. Fresh eyes. Yeah, fresh eyes. I mean, are you able to? Jack, I'm still waiting on that Bigfoot morsel. Would love to see how this ties back into the big man in the woods. Okay, well. Actually, don't you know what, Jack? Bigfoot real or fake? I don't know. I don't know. Also, it's like, well, how do we define that? Oh, don't. No, we're not defining that. I'm saying, could I go shake hands with Bigfoot? Or if I went to shake hands with Bigfoot, would he be there? You know what I mean? Not be there. You know what I mean? Could I dap up Bigfoot? Or would he not? Dude, you're asking the questions I'm wondering myself. I'm wondering them in a more terrified tone, because... Jack's like, if I knew the answer to that question, I wouldn't be talking to your dumbass. I'd be on the Travel Channel. What he experienced with this thing, whatever he saw, like, he thought he was crazy, maybe, too. So he told his friends, and then months later, they all went back, and he had two friends go with them, and they all saw it. Did they all smoke the same strain, or were they using different varietals? What's the median income of this group? I don't know.

They were probably in their 20s, so I think you could just assume. But this happened a long time ago. You're not talking to him. This didn't happen last week. This is an old story or a current? Probably a few years ago. This was all me leading up to say that I also asked him. I'm like, well, dude, for instance, if I went with you, how confident would you be that I saw something, like see something? And he was like, I think you probably would. And so I wasn't planning on it, but it now is like, Well, fuck. Where does this person live? Do I go? Is it conveniently located to you or not? It's in the south. Okay. So what part of Alabama do you have to go to? It's more north than that. Okay. Well, Jack doesn't want to dox Bigfoot. Well, it's one. No, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, I mean, you guys are laughing, but like, I mean, seriously, like, oh, shit. I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, well, it's like, dude, do I go? Like, because this guy was like shaking telling me it. So it's like, wait, like, I don't. I don't want that to happen to me, really. I don't want to die. This 25-year-old, he smokes some Zaza. He's out there with his guys camping. They see some shit. He tells you, and now he's like, bitch, come check me. I'll show you this motherfucker. It's no problem. And now you're saying, this guy was so scared, I don't know if I'm ready for this as the documentarian. I'm merely a bystander. I don't want to be torn limb from limb by Bigfoot. Well, it's like, do I need to be a part of these stories myself? versus just telling them sure sure sure i mean do i believe some fucking you know three-toothed redneck i don't know do i believe jack yes i do okay hey and also the best storytellers are telling the story of a life well lived and you can't do that over zoom if you ask me brother you got to go get boots on the ground i would probably go you spend a lot of time like outside and shit you're fine you got boots don't you i was thinking like who i know

Like, who would I bring with me? You know, not me. Probably some of the most gnarly bros. Not me. Don't text me. Lose my number. Mind you, like I talk to these like I hear these stories like every day. So my ability, my ability to like ignore this stuff is a lot lower than yours at this point where like people come across information that's shocking all the time. And basically it's easier to just kind of like ignore it, forget about it and move on with your day. Like I have like a harder time doing that now. um because i like yeah i hear and you can get a little bread off it too that doesn't hurt yeah well maybe one day and you're you're you're kind of you're becoming an expert at it slowly but surely with practice it's just gonna happen yeah it's um so yeah i mean when i'm thinking about like if i would do it i'm like thinking about it very seriously of like do what i actually want to like let me ask you a question jack would you go like would you hell no i don't even camp bro i ain't doing shit I forgot about that. You're not going to go just because you don't want to sleep in a tent. If it's comfort plus or higher, I will go. Because with Bigfoot, you're talking about ghosts or the paranormal, things that are not physically in our world. That's what I might be a little more afraid of. But if Bigfoot is some sort of beast that does not, an extinct creature from millions of years ago, I could put the fucking thang on him, two to the head, and it's a wrap. I can't shoot a ghost. You know what I'm saying? And, Jack, I know you have guns. By the way, I mean, yeah, but I can't take them across state lines. Also, I don't think a 38 special would take down Bigfoot. Oh, that is not true, bro. Bigfoot, Bigfoot. You put a silver bullet in there? You could take rounds. Bro, I could take, all right, well, I mean, look, you're going to be posing with Bigfoot like Trump Jr. with an elephant. If the 38 won't do it, Jack, I got other things, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, Jason keeps a few things in the Tesla. He's not afraid to spray. Yeah, the Tesla frunk. That's what's up. That's what's up.

But the problem with this is, and I like where this is going. I think this is going to make you a lot of money, and I'm happy about that. But the issue with doing this more exploratory boots-on-the-ground type shit is that you actually have to hang out with these people. And I think that could be worse than getting raw dog by Bigfoot. Have you listened? Wait, Chris, have you listened yet? No, Jack. I have to be honest with you, Jack. I probably never will. It's okay. Because I don't have any interest in this, but I want you to succeed. So that's why I'm signal boosting you. Well, I think you should because I've... First and foremost, you should. No, seriously. And this is a good opportunity for an organic plug because I make this show specifically for people like you. Because I hate paranormal stuff. I mean, I've always been interested in it, but the content out there is just so silly to me. There's got to be a better way. It usually features people in a way that they're either hard to believe or it's sensationalized to the point where it's like, okay, this is a joke. But the people on the show are not, as you're saying, one-tooth yokels. A lot of the people that I've interviewed so far, like... Sometimes three, sometimes four teeth. Very similar to you and I. So you're saying you have... They're just regular, like, cool bros that would be wearing a brain-dead hoodie. Mid-level creative directors wearing dunks, and they're seeing ghosts, too. Oh, I have all sorts of people, but, you know, I'm not putting anybody on there that, like, I don't think would be credible to the audience, generally speaking. So... And I'm like, when I make these... Yeah, yeah. When I make these episodes, I'm imagining... Like, I don't know if you guys do this, but I have, like, a hypothetical audience in my head. Yeah, but still, and for Otherworld. Me too. Her name's Emily Ratajkowski. You know, for Otherworld, I'm very much factoring in super skeptical people that would normally not be listening to something like this. You've got a lot more checks and balances. And it's not like I'm saying I'm trying to convince them, but I'm trying to make it, with each episode, I try to make it entertaining outside of just...

paranormal shock value sure well i would expect that because you're a professional so i wouldn't that doesn't surprise me chris you're being a lot more friendly than i thought you would be about this stuff which is great well no i i don't i'm not i'm not i'm a very friendly guy and i also think it's i just love success with people i know so that's part of the reason that's the loophole is that you think this is gonna be successful that's why you're being nice it's definitely it's definitely gonna be successful because i think you're right i think that i don't listen to anything like this i don't care about anything like this but i also am aware that this is like the biggest genre of podcast. This is like the biggest genre of entertainment almost in a lot of ways. So I wish I could have some interest in it so I could get a little cheddar myself. But unfortunately, I'm stuck here with TJ talking to a writer. But I see where you're coming from because that was sort of the original reason why I started podcasting forever ago was like, this is a cool medium. I think I like it. And everything about it is so bad. Like the artwork for it is so bad. The music is so bad. The merch is just the worst. And for you, you're just like, oh, all I have to do is create the coolest looking podcast in this specific genre. And it's absolutely not hard to do at all to be the best in that selection of shit. but you really did a home run. The merch, the logos, the music, it's all way better than it used to be. Thank you, guys. So kudos. The logo and the merch, all that stuff is very good. You understood the assignment. I'm going to take this moment to shout out Colin, Cul-de-sac Studios, who designed it. I'm also a big fan of your podcast. I'm friends with Colin. Colin's the homie. But I do think that that is interesting, is that podcasts are... ugly usually you know and also it's just a funny it's a strange thing it's like it almost felt like it was being done on purpose and you see who actually makes podcasts you're like oh this wasn't on yeah it's it's a thing that that people ask us about all the time with our podcast because we have like a certain branding style and a certain merch style and like a certain visual style and everyone's like wow you guys have like such a like a cool thing and i'm like first of all thank you but also like it's so

not difficult to have like a podcast that has cool branding it's almost the competition is just pure shit it's almost like i i've i've sometimes wondered not all of it how it might even be hard to replicate like how bad most podcasts look like i've i've thought about making like an alternate cover like i was like i've often wondered like what would you little stinker what would it look like if i had like a quote-unquote podcast cover you know what i'm saying like you know scroll itunes and they all look they all have like a look but i it's like hard to put your finger on like what makes it that where it's like always like you know the portraits are always the same You know, there's like four types of podcast covers. I can't name what they are, but you know what I'm saying? It reminds me of like the pen and pixel art from 20 years ago where all the rap music covers. You would hire this one design studio and it would have that exact look. There's probably just some 19-year-old graphic designer on an iPad who just makes every single podcast cover. No, that's the fucked up part. I don't think that's the case. I think the case is that this is the... this is like what people expect it to look like so that's what it looks like you know what i mean it's like it's designed that way because it needs like movie posters or something yeah yeah like that's here here's call her daddy it's the most popular podcast on spotify i'm gonna make it look like that the artwork is not the greatest and i'm gonna copy that well i also think that i mean this was happening at the end of end of like or when when music started to become like itunes you know when everything went from cd to like digital Those are the conversations that I used to have with record labels. They'd be like, we're not going to pay somebody $20,000 to design a cover. It's one by one. Why the fuck do I care? It's the same. I think it's like the same kind of thing. Dude, it shows. Dude, the album art from Adobe Photoshop 1.0 to 9.0 is so bad. It's crazy. Major artists spend the money because... because the label will pay for it. The label will pay whatever for Taylor Swift to do the gatefold. It doesn't matter. But I think that the smaller bands now, much like podcasts, have friends that are good, so they ask them. Or if you're Soulja Boy, you have friends that are bad, but you still hire them. Yeah, it still looks good. This is really looping it back, but full circle. I think what I was talking about with Otherworld and standing out from the paranormal, I wasn't even saying that I...

i wanted it to have more swag or something like other pods i think it's just like what i am trying to do that's like i think is elevated is like one only first person accounts like i'm interviewing people about something that happened to them oh okay all right that that is that does seem important i'd say most most paranormal shows are like people reading stuff off reddit whether you realize it or not um or hiring a voice actor to read a reddit post or being like i saw this thing on tiktok it had me shooketh yeah or they're just like talking about folklore love that album describing it like reading wikipedia don't set him up like that or i'd say there's like the other thing which is like more like quote-unquote storytelling you know where it's like it's ghost stories but it's like the type your uncle would tell you where it's like this totally happened to me like i see it's not supposed to be like heavily researched supposed to be entertaining yes where it's like oh did all of that really happen to grandpa like you know it's like but i'm not doing any of that because i've never i don't know they just never have done it for me but um i've always been fascinated by like the cognitive dissonance at play with people where like they'll experience something that's like terrifying or shocking or like something that would like change their definition of the world around them and then they just kind of like move on you know yeah yeah yeah and there's so many people that have that bottled up and like my theory with making this is i'm like okay if i do this and like do it in a non-cheesy way that's not embarrassing that people will be taken seriously i think people will come out of the woodwork with more stuff and like hit me up and it's it's been working i'm gonna think about this then and i i don't think anything has happened to me that would kind of get me on the show but let me keep thinking because you know who knows chris might have something we all got something don't we no i've never i don't i don't believe if you don't believe and you've never believed then it's hard to kind of

uh have that happen to you i think to an extent i think you have to have a more open mind to the fact that it could happen at all for it to be real i used to think that but then i've like talked to a lot of people that a lot of people just like you chris non-believers and then something happens out of the blue but also these people spend a lot more time outdoors than i do i think that's a big part of this as well paranormal motherfuckers be inside too chris come on yeah no that's in the attic as well as the sub flooring Jack, on your most recent episode, there was a story. I don't want to divulge the whole thing, but there was some moments where religion was discussed or maybe like religious physical practices, you know what I mean? And a lot of the spiritual world is in the religious world, not just like the dark evil spirits and ghosts and monsters and stuff like that, but a lot of it is just straight up religion. How much does religion come up on your show? religious people in your life changed after after doing all these episodes very complicated multi-part question but uh so yeah like religious religion's gonna come up more for sure thank god i'm back like i i want to like literally have a priest on as a guest and like i want to have somebody from every religion nah bro you know you know you don't want those diddlers on you can't give them a platform not a diddling priest no not a catholic priest oh just a regular jack says jack says no diddlers allowed on otherworld i'll screen them first i'll i'll present them with a moral test but i just find like that level of religious person kind of boring because everything goes back to like their belief chris you can find a young pope out no but you know what i mean jack like where it's like their answer for everything is like well that's god's plan well that's god's love in action that's that you know what i mean no yeah that's cheating like i well i think like doing this is like opened up has like changed my perspective on like good and bad for like religious people yeah expand on that my brother oh my god as with a lot of stuff it's like it's like i i immediately think of the long answer and it's like a real long actually dude i'll fuck it i'll tell this story you guys will eat this shit up you guys are gonna eat this shit up um so this is unreleased but like in a in a future episode okay little uzi in a future episode i witnessed um like almost like an exorcism take place at erwan

Okay, I was like, how are we going to eat this up? Bro, the sea moss gel is good. I don't know if it's that good. An exorcism at Erewhon. The first time I took a bite of that, I was like, this can't be gluten-free. I basically, my eyes rolled back in my head. Okay, sorry, go ahead. Okay, not really like a full exorcism, but I was out interviewing. I'm going to keep some of this secret because I don't want to spoil the episodes, but I was out interviewing somebody that's kind of psychic-ish. It was somebody that's on the show in multiple episodes that'll come out. But I had said goodbye to them. It kind of took a while. We were hanging out, lingering, talking for a long time. And then weirdly enough, I go to Erewhon because I was talking to them for so long that I missed lunch. And I'm like, fuck, I'm so hungry. I need to grab a quick snack and catch up with my day. To situate the listener, which location? I'm guessing Silver Lake. This was in the Valley, actually. Twist. Not Studio City. I mean, it's important to know. Over there by the Sportsman's Lodge. Yes. Which I've stayed at multiple times back in the day. Very cool. I hope it comes back. It will. It will. It's a whole other podcast episode. And by the way, not like really a full exorcism. I don't know what to call this. But anyway, so I'm there. No problem. And I'm walking in to like grab like the quickest food I could find and like grab something, buy it, come out. And then I see walking in like the person from my episode. And I'm like, oh my God, it's you again. Like, ha ha. Very funny, spooky. And then they're like, you know, they're like. Random AF. Okay, now you have to come in with us and like eat. And I got to get going soon, but I'll go in. So they were looking around, and I sort of, like, start moseying around the store because I have nothing better to do. And, like, this woman, like, cracks, like, a joke to me in the cold food aisle. And she, like, turns to me, and she's like, like, they should hand out coats in here. It's so cold. And I was like, and she, like, looked me in the eyes, and, like, it just stuck out to me because I'm like, well.

That is a good one. Dude, I don't know. I'm not like a person people talk to in public. I don't have like a welcoming vibe. I don't have a welcoming like talk to me face. You're not super welcoming. Yeah, you're not super welcoming. Like almost nobody strikes up a conversation with me. You're not giving howdy ho neighbor. I'd say I'm pretty friendly, but it's just like not. It stuck out to me. Anyway, this stuck out to me because it's like doesn't happen. Like people don't just say stuff to me. When I'm standing around alone. I was like, okay, that was kind of strange. Especially if there's an odd comment as well. I was like, haha, yeah, it's cold. I'm like, alright. I didn't know what to say. Because it doesn't happen to me. You're like, all this raw milk will go bad if it wasn't cold, you fucking dummy. You know, it's whatever. So I go outside and we sit down and I'm eating my... I think I had almonds or something that I bought. And I'm eating it with the psychic person that I did the episode on. the woman that made the comment ended up like sitting in the table one over from us and she sees that there's mushrooms on my shirt and starts talking to me about that oh hold on hold on were you wearing online ceramics in the valley i was okay well it's your fault then for the questioning yeah you're kind of asking no but she starts asking me like if i've ever done mushrooms and like starts talking to me about like mushrooms and like it's kind of talking to me like a lot and like mind you once again with my personality like i'm not like a chatty kathy like that professionally that's a different story you're not gonna grab a chair turn it around ac slater style and you're saying you're saying much like jason i you only talk if the mic's on for money you're not really trying to chat with an innocent bystander well i'm not i'm not like good at small talk and like my instinct with it is always to dip dodge get rid of them fast you know where i'm like closing the i'm like constantly be like I hope you try them. Like, yeah, you should try them. Like, see you later. I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to go ahead. Yeah. So I'm obviously just instinct trying to do that, but it kind of like, I can't like quite shake her. And she's still like talking. And like, then the psychic woman comes back and she sits down and the woman's still talking to me. And like, then she's talking to all of us and she keeps like bringing up new topics. And like the topics she's bringing up are getting closer and closer to like.

like what we were talking about that day like the episode i was making and she mind you she knows nothing about us so i'm like but she starts talking about like paranormal stuff and like the psychics like kicking me under the table like laughing kind of you know and then she starts talking about like psychic stuff and like and i'm like kicking her and being like this is like we're both kind of like who is this lady like what's going on to clarify the psychic person is grimes right i'm assuming no it's it's obviously not grimes but you actually might know who this person is i'm not gonna we'll talk off mic okay so you guys are kicking each under the table yeah like this fucking trippy ass chick is starting to stumble upon what we were talking about it's starting to get it's like it's starting to get weird to it's starting to get weird to me because she's like and mind you we're like like we spent the day talking about like deep stuff like not common words like it's getting into the territory where she's like name dropping stuff that's like hyper specific words paranormal terms like most people don't know and it's like it's like dude what the like it's getting to the point where it's like hard to conceal that like i do a show about this and that she's like sitting next to a person that like is a professional in this category and also this person's talking about how like she's making these like weird implications that like like it seems like she needs help and she's like almost like starting to tear up and like all of a sudden this feels this feels more like like how somebody would run into the office of the ghostbusters been kidnapped and she's like you're a rick moranis they let her out for a second to go to the bathroom and she's kind of like trying to let you know that she needs help yeah but like almost like that but like it was that it was the online ceramics so you can go ahead and blame that but dude there's probably like three other people wearing that hoodie Point, counterpoint. Yeah. Next question. It's actually, like, the best way to blend into Erwan. Yeah. Yeah, it starts to get weird. And so finally, like, at a certain point, like, we accept, like, we're not getting rid of this lady. And I'm like, and I forget how exactly it goes. But I'm like, like, look, like, what's going on here? Because, like. Cards on the table. I actually make a podcast about this. And, like, you're sitting here, like, next to a person that does that professionally. Like.

I would have to check my notes because I wrote it down after, like, the order of things. But it escalates very fast. And this woman's talking about how, like, she starts to cry. Like, I don't, like, I, it starts to get very real. And, like, all of a sudden the clairvoyant woman's like, Jack, sweetie, like, stand up. Like, let her take your seat. And she's like, sweetie, give me your hands. And, like, takes the hands of this woman and starts, like, reading her right there. Read that, bitch. And, like, this woman. She said something about New York in the past. I have some of it recorded in really low quality because at a certain point I run a voice note. She's saying stuff like, you were around dark groups of people surrounding you in New York. They weren't of the light. Is that right? And she's like, yes. She's like, were they involved in some kind of rituals? She's like, yes. She kept saying they weren't of the light. These people aren't of the light. This woman's like really crying now. Honey, do you listen to Red Scare? It started getting like so heavy. And mind you, like everybody at Erewhon's watching us. This is outdoors at Erewhon. Outdoors at Erewhon. Everybody's like, like, I mean, I'm kind of in a bubble, but I'm very much aware of like how insane this is. Oh, and I just remembered. I listened to the recording the other day, so I forgot about this. But a very funny detail is that leading up to this, like right when it was about to get really intense, a little kid came up to us and was like, sir, would you like to buy some M&Ms to support my football team? Sorry, little man. We're kind of in the middle of something right now. So like it gets so heavy and it gets into like the clairvoyant knows that her grandpa died like a week before. And the woman's like, like he was a really bad man. Like, I worry about him, like, where he is right now, if he's, like, in hell. It gets really heavy. I don't even know how to wrap this one up properly, but, like, you know, it eventually ends in, like, it's kind of a weird, like, we don't, we just kind of, like, feel like, wow, that was crazy. We all kind of laugh, and then, like, we all had to leave, so we went our separate ways. I gave her my phone number. I actually ended up interviewing that woman, but she eventually didn't want to be on the podcast.

Which brings me to, this is a very long answer to the religion part, but she's like a born-again Christian now as a result of... She does listen to Redskins. Her trauma. Yeah, so as it turns out, she basically thinks that what the clairvoyant does is evil. Right. That's what she believes and is very afraid of it. But she still let it go down because it was dire? You're toxic, but I still let you hit. I don't know. We've all been there. I don't know. I interviewed her for a long time, and then she hit me up a few days later and was like, I don't want to be a part of the podcast. I probably wouldn't have included her anyway because I could tell there's definitely something going on bad with her, but it's not what she thinks it is. Let me ask you a quick question, Jack. What does she look like? Like a yoga instructor. Blonde. Oh, so it sounded pretty good from where I'm sitting. Yeah, you just said, I don't know how to tie this all up, but one question. Is she hot? Yeah. I'm not going to answer that. I'm not going to answer that. I did see this story. Okay, so did you feel heavier or lighter when you left the situation? Dude, I felt like, what's even the word? I felt like electric almost. Sometimes I felt like that making the show where it's like, i felt like i'm like riding the wave of like things that are just like happening in a way that they don't normally happen right like i felt like she sprouted almonds will do that to you it felt very weird like i was kind of like in this crazy thin space of reality right where it was like i was reflecting out of the whole way home of like dude what the fuck like like she was like lured to me like she came i couldn't shake her and then all of a sudden like like afterwards me and the clairvoyant were both like did you plant her did you plant her like i was like i was like did you fucking plan that like like i knew she couldn't have planned it it's not her personality but like she's like no but she was like jack did you plant her for the show did you i'm like no you're like where's where's ashton kuchar at that's just some that's some energy bro studio city's different but but i'll wrap i was tying this all up to religion because like

For one reason or another, she ended up in one of those weird Christian churches where it's all fear-based. So it's almost like you were in the other world. In my interview, she was blaming a lot of what was happening to her. Any bad thing in her life, she was blaming to breaking the rules of the Bible. It was just weird to me seeing her because I was like... Same. And she was so terrified of interacting with us and was like... afraid of the repercussions of like what would happen if she was on my podcast which is evil right and i was like and this is like a terrified person and i'm like you know i grew up going to church i'm like you are reading a different bible than what i read because like like like that's the whole what's the point of doing this if you're going to be terrified all the time like that's not the message of that book and like so i think doing this podcast has allowed me to see just like how many churches and people come at it from such a weird like twisted way where it's very based in fear and like like punishment in a way that doesn't make any sense i mean i think a lot a lot of it is based in fear and punishment but i think there's levels to it you know i think it's like i mean the whole thing is you're gonna go to hell so that's pretty punishment based yeah but i think that like the ins and outs uh i think people choose to take liberties and and things get very extreme she was like really afraid of like all of this like darkness around her or whatever and like i don't know if you believe the bible and you're a believer like in that in the bible it says that you would have nothing to fear like at any point like you're nothing can really harm you if you're saved to me seeing her so terrified i was like man like i don't really know why you're going to this church if like it's just going to make you more scared and also it doesn't make any sense with her belief with that because it's like this person after interviewing her thinks that like that she's being punished for like engaging in this stuff

Like, very literally. Like, she was telling me about, like, she woke up with, like, a stye in her eye, like, the next morning after talking to us. And, like, she thinks that was, like, punishment. And I was like, he's not punishing us. Like, I make the fucking podcast. Like, I don't have a stye. And I'm like, the clairvoyant's fine. Like, she did the stuff. Like, I think you just have a stye. You just have a stye. You just got a stye, bro. I mean, a lot of the other world are just... All the people like when we go to Erewhon and it's just a bunch of hot people smiling and having a good time spending money on sprouted almonds. But there's, you know, for every person, every 10 people, there's one person in there who's like living in hell and pain and fear right under our noses. And you would never know. Oh, so much. Yeah, so much. But yeah, I think like that's a very long winded answer to the religions thing. But like good on the flip side, it's made me more much more open minded about other stuff. And like and seeing like how ignorant like the Reddit atheist guys are. It's just I mean, those don't come for my. Don't come from my fucking community, Jack. I'm an atheist, but I go to Mosaic for the networking. I met Jerry Lorenzo there, and he kind of gives me a discount on essentials, so pretty good. Well, as we're wrapping things up, Jack, I wanted to briefly touch on the world of gnomes. I'd like you to explore. Just to briefly, we did a long roundabout chat on religion. Let's do a shorter cul-de-sac chat. I want Chris to know about the world of gnomery. Oh, my God, Chris. As well as how it pertains to Lowe's and Home Depot, etc. Okay. So, Chris. Okay, I'm here. I'm ready. In the early days of the show, before it had a name, I was starting to interview tons of people back-to-back that had reached out to me previously. One guy sent me a story. I don't remember what the original one was, but I was interested because he told me that him and his wife were both Romani, which is the actual name for what most people know to be gypsies. It's an ethnic group of people, diaspora, with a long history that a lot of people don't know about, but they're very spiritual. I studied anthropology a little bit in school, so I was always fascinated, but never met a Romani person.

Um, so I was like, dude, I want to interview you guys just about that. Like, let's go. They tell me their ghost story. They told me all sorts of interesting Romani stuff. And then like, it starts taking some turns. It's like a four hour conversation, but like, it's one of those where like, I started at like 4 PM and then like, all of a sudden I look out my windows and it's like dark and I've like turned on my lights and I'm like still going. And then at a certain point, your wallet's missing. Where's my Roly, babe? Bro, that is a stereotype, a racist stereotype. How long gone, bitch? We clowning this motherfucker. Okay. So anyway, it takes a real sharp turn where they start talking about gnomes because they're both psychics. They have a psychic shop, and their parents were psychics. They're fifth-generation psychics, so they have a shop. And a lot of what they're talking to me about is like, The people that come into their shop with like, please help me. Like, I need your help. Crazy situations. And they're like, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff like that you told that we dealt with. And then there's like laughing about it. They're like, I'll give you a hint. Like, we've had multiple stories about gnomes that involve gnomes. And I was like, like, what? Like, I mean, this is in the episode that is out. I think it's like, like, you could hear me being like, wait, like. like gnomes i was like i was like like you mean you mean like that's what i was wondering i'm like i'm like are gnomes real i'm like i thought it was just like made up by like somebody in the 60s and if you did have a problem with garden gnomes why would you try to find a gypsy psych psychic to help you i was like well i was just like just baffled i'm like wait are they like i didn't think a gnome was a thing like i thought it was like i didn't i didn't think that was like an old you thought it was purely ornamental spirit i thought it was like an invention of the 60s and like basic and and so it's so funny to like i'm like laughing and they're laughing too but they're like no it's i mean they're like i know we sound crazy but like dude we've had to deal with this shit and then they start explaining it and the explanation is actually like kind of scary and like it makes a little bit more sense once you get into it but um like essentially people

worship all sorts of weird things and there's like some i guess there's there is history of people worshiping like statues of gnomes and essentially what happens is like somebody starts like a gnome shrine or whatever and it starts with like a little thing like like leaving the gnome like some coins or like a muffin or whatever for good luck classic classic shrine shrine stuff hopefully a mini muffin but yeah but basically It'll start to escalate, and then they're offering the gnome bigger things, and then eventually the gnome starts to ask for stuff. And, you know, whether it's, like... Not the Birkin. Not for dick, I hope. The gnome will ask for, like, a cake or something. And then... Gnome said, you gotta finish that? You guys are laughing. I know it's funny, but, like... Let me go to buy it, bro. Like, I'm dead serious. Let me hold, like, five. Let me hold five steps real quick. The gnome asks for bigger stuff. And then he'll be like, I want a bed. I want, like, a bigger shrine. And then eventually the gnome says, okay, what do you want? Like, what do you want? Gnome flipped it on me? Do you want money? Like, what do you want? And, like, eventually the gnome will give you what you want. It's usually, like, money or, like, a new car. Okay. Sure. this exchange starts to happen where like this person's like worshiping basically like worshiping a statue of a gnome and like i think a lot of people do this with all sorts of stuff like yeah you know people can end up worshiping all sorts of crazy shit but like um and then eventually with the gnomes eventually whatever it is behind the gnome wants something that like they can't give it and apparently it's usually the life of like your firstborn son or a loved one this i feel like there's some similarities to the leprechaun and the gnome they're both little they both have treasures to share with you but then also the sopranos like one day you give i'm gonna need a favor from you dude the blood of your firstborn child so chris you're laughing hysterically but like i have interviewed people that have like had serious issues and had a relative

commit suicide related to this because the gnome was like all right what kind of what do you want he's like m3 2019 or higher and he's like there's not the three trim package okay so like it is i i do know it's funny and like these episodes are objectively funny and like the podcast i want to make is like both at the same time you know like there's funny parts of this but also it's not a lol fest like i don't i don't think it's ridiculous but i'll tell you why is that um because i mean i do believe in this stuff generally but like you know like ouija boards are considered like a terrible thing like you should never fucking touch a ouija board and even if you like slightly believe in ghost stuff like you have to acknowledge that like probably the worst thing you could do is just like be really asking for something to come and like move things in the room like you don't dangerous game yeah and inviting something in like so basically when i when i talked to them further about it i'm like do you think that there's actually like a giggly gnome like is there like a real gnome on the other side and they're like no like it doesn't matter if it's a gnome like like like if you they're like it's a it's like a hotline if you're if you're putting stuff out there if you're like if you're offering worship and it you're it doesn't really it's unclear who you're gonna worship like somebody's gonna show up and like take it like somebody's gonna take that muffin and take you up on it like it's not going to be good it's not going to be good you know gluten-free stuff is usually dry i agree yeah it's like putting like the like an ad on craigslist for something you know like the people that it's going to attract you're not going to want to invite into your home yeah like i want i want to like if a girl on post a craigslist will be like i want a boyfriend who loves me come over to my house here's my address i'll be in bed like damn you're not going to like what shows up and ring it ring a ding ding no but like yeah i mean so and dude it's like a common theme the gnomes are funny but like from that way like like that theme i've noticed across a lot of what i've heard in doing this show

is like anybody that's like goofing around in this stuff and offering it like making offerings seems to be like a terrible okay pattern all right like and inviting inviting things like big no-no okay i'm a little upset set that i didn't know about this before christmas because i obviously would have purchased jason a gnome and that would have been not in my house after these episodes came out like did you notice home depot Everywhere was crazy with gnomes this year. Oh, so you're saying Big Gnome is aware of their popularity. Oh, Big Gnome, yeah. Home Depot doesn't want you to know about this. But don't you know it's like every season? There's, like, a weird, like, common design thing that's new where it's, like, oh, clearly, like... We're pushing this. The 10-foot skeleton one year, the gnomes the next year. Yeah, it's, like, where every store is doing some version of it. Like, I noticed a lot of gnomes in the Christmas stuff this year. A lot of gnomes in the Zeitgeist. Maybe the Otherworld NFT package will be a bunch of, like, crypto gnome punks. I'm staying away from the gnomes. But that's a two-part episode, and I eventually... That's the only episode I did in person, which is crazy of me, but... bro i barely scratched the surface the guy who i talked to about this is named sean johns don't don't bury the lead sweetie sean johns all right no jack his name's sean his name's sean johns and he's been in the podcast multiple times he's a fun character i'd say he's generally well he's generally well received some people i think it's weird because it's like a more diverse audience now so like there's nuances to my humor you know like Like, I love Sean Johnson. Like, acknowledge that he's, like, got... He's, like, eccentric, right? He's a strange person. He's currently training. He tells me he's training right now to do 1,000 pull-ups in a day, which I don't know if it's possible or not. Like, I don't know. That's not possible. Or it's, like, would be very hard. But, you know, he's a strange guy. He's not crazy, but he's, like, goofy. He's eccentric. What does he do for a living?

like dude schemes like he's he sells like flips cars uh i think he's a realtor too like he has 12 cars in his driveway right now like damn i liked doing those episodes because like i got to meet them in person it was really funny um they're normal people like if you saw them on the street you would not let's not go that let's not go that far i mean i see a lot of people in the street and i know their internal is not normal you would never think that they have any opinions on gnomes put it that way all right next and that's the beauty of it man that's the beauty of it but yeah the sean johns like there are some sean johns haters in the audience but like i think it's funny there's just like some people i think just like don't get it you know like they don't get like if you're a sean john hater suck my fucking dick that's what i say i'd say everybody loves sean johns um but there's gonna be a lot of characters that kind of come in and out of the show like that you know where it's like yeah i'm able to acknowledge that some things are funny and scary like it's funny like gnomes are funny um funny i'm not gonna say i think a lot of paranormal shows like have to be scary all the time and it's like dude this is fun like i'm i can't sit here and pretend that a gnome isn't funny like it's absurd it's supposed to tickle me yeah by design i have to go to air one right now and get a piece of coconut cake for my gnome but thank you thank you so much jack and we'll make sure to check out other world wherever podcasts are sold yes uh go check it out um I don't know. You know how to find it. Otherworld. Yeah, we know how to find it. And yeah, we appreciate it, bro. It was fun. That was fun. Thanks for having me. Chris, I thought you were going to be a lot more skeptical than you were. No, Jack. Again, I want to see you make enough money that you give it all to a gnome and then kill yourself. So this is kind of my... Dude, I will promise you I'm going to try as hard as I can to be successful, but it's going to be gnome free. Okay, God bless. I know the gnome is a shortcut, but I'm not going to use gnome. Jack, I'm about to create a gnome burner on IG and send you a...

DM. People are already doing this to me. Alright, I gotta go. I'll see you guys later. Thanks, Jack. It was a pleasure. Alright, Jack. Alright, see ya.