792. - Eugene Kotlyarenko

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Chris Black here with you live. Nashville, Tennessee, them jeans, what's good? Jesus, why are you in Nashville, you crazy guy? I'm getting on the bus tomorrow with Katie. I'm going to see Wilco and Waxahachie tomorrow night and then ride down to Atlanta for the show on Saturday. So you're going to be, you have a bunk on the bus? I have a bunk, yeah. What kind of cowboy cosplay is this, brother? I mean, I think Katie understands that I'm obviously a huge Waxahachie fan, but I'm a very big Wilco fan, and this is a rare kind of opportunity to see them up close and personal in their, some would say their prime. So you're getting a time machine and going back to the year 2002? No shade. We'll go ahead. I'm only saying that as far as their playing and the deepness of the catalog. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? I opened the Cabernet before I had a chance to fully mature. Yes, exactly. A mistake that many have made. So don't beat yourself up. Sure. It's a mistake. But anyway, I'm here. I felt so good saying that out loud. I'm going to Rolf and Daughters tonight with my friend Jake that I went to high school with.

i'm hitting the road so it's you know it's not my favorite city but it's a city yeah how long gone is doesn't need to go on tour this summer chris chris black tour is is is going on constantly it's uh it's an always on activation and i think it's an always on i mean once you get on the train it hurts more to get off you know what i mean that's kind of how i mean i actually feel terrible right now yeah um And don't give this guy a COVID test. Actually, it's not COVID. I do. I've developed adult allergies as a 40. Like I never had this problem before. And it's been so bad since Milan. So I don't know. Cho got this shot. I guess there's a shot you can get that stops allergies for six months. which, you know how I feel about shots, you know, not to get into the dear media world. I ain't here for the Pope, brother. Exactly. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm in Nashville where no one's talking about the Pope, I'll tell you that. Yeah, they're talking about Po-Up. Yeah, the Pope is not on the tip of anyone's tongue here in 12 South, but I know you've been following it closely. Not at all. Honestly, I mean, it's the same thing. The Pope has always been the same thing as a royal family. It's like something that was created thousands of years ago to entertain people and control them somehow. Okay, okay, TJ. Okay, TJ, go off. Are you saying that religion controls the minds of its follower? Is that what you're trying to say? Only the weak, brother. Only the weak. It's a tool. There we go. There we go. No, I was. Before we got on, I was reading. There's a New York Times story. about dear media and it's kind of like what a great great segue brother i didn't really know this but i guess it's they're kind of like yeah you know it's a little uh rfk maha vibes because it's like they mix up which is genius like real doctors and then uh people that aren't doctors but they're all saying the same thing as far as hosting goes if you if you see what i'm saying like they're like the like everybody's saying

Things like they're an expert, but some are experts. So I think people get easily confused. So it's a podcast network. Got it. I think that is a great plan because you have the actual accredited doctors who are saying these facts. Genius plan. And then people are like, okay, if I can't believe a certified doctor, then what can I believe in? And then you mix it in with people who actually know how to talk. Maybe a silver-tongued... salesperson type, you know, a grifter type, a Jordan Peterson type or whatever, people that are really good at talking, but, you know, they only have one thing on their mind, and that's money, I guess, right? That is money. I mean, I guess it's a... One of the popular shows is about a husband and wife, you know, where the guy looks like a hot kind of like pyramid scheme trainer from Instagram, and the woman looks exactly like an OnlyFans. You know what I mean? That's kind of the vibe. But that is alluring to many people. So I kind of, I see why it works. Yeah, I mean, to me, that's the problem when podcasts, when you fall out of love with a podcast or a show or whatever it may be, a writer that you like or a band is when they stop doing it because they seem to be enjoying themselves and they like to entertain their fans and they're like, wow, this is great. My dream in life also pays me. I'm in the 1% of all humans. It's so great. And then somebody's like, if you start talking about China and immigrants and this and that and doctors and vaxxers, then you can make even more money. People do it. People love to do it. Well, we should also talk about the fact that this year they're finally going to give a statue. They've been talking about sports gambling. It's insane. We haven't started our campaign yet, but the Golden Globe for podcasting is coming soon. I made the joke. You guys were talking about a bet in the group chat. I put that on Twitter. People are...

You know, people are offering third parties. You know what I mean? We were joking. Bo and Yang are smartless. But we're forgetting, you know, the Daily, Call Her Daddy, the Ion Pack, etc. I'm not forgetting when I made my proclamation that Las Culturistas is going to win the Golden Globes Best Podcast Award in the year 2026 of our Lord. I considered all shows. You did? Okay, you considered all. Because you're deep in the game, so I would expect you to have thought it through, but I thought maybe you were just reacting in the moment as we do. From Celebrity Book Club to Serial and back. Okay. No pod left unturned with my proclamation. And I know that it's a foolish bet for me to put Bowen up against the entire field of every podcast ever created You know, you pick one pod, and I'll pick the other, and whoever wins, wins the $100. But, you know, I like a little drama. It's only a hundo, right? It's only a hundo. What's his co-host? I was a valet at the Cowboy Carter tour. What's his co-host's name, Matt? Matt. Okay. I don't know much about Matt, but I feel like I want Matt to have a big career. If he's putting up with that, he deserves to be rich, is what I'm going to say. You know what I mean? I agree. God bless Matt. I agree. God bless him. I saw him do something and he was good. Yeah. When they get the divorce, he needs to get his, he needs to get broke off. Yeah. He's getting that California 50-50. You know what I mean? I hope. Pray for Matt. Pray for Matt. But yeah, that was a big, that was a big, but there's another, there was a big story. I haven't read it yet. I don't know if you've read it. There's a big story in New York Magazine cover story about, about. West Village Girls. I saw it, but I definitely did not read it. I know. I don't have any use for an article like that. I mean, apparently it's great. I do have kind of a use for it, but I also don't care. The West Village is the worst neighborhood in New York, and the only person that will argue with that is all women. And it's because of Sex and the City, of course.

And all of the cute bistros, you know? Yeah. But I couldn't be less interested in a neighborhood even though this phenomenon is interesting. So I don't know if I'm going to make it through. So you haven't read the article? No, I've not. I was going to see if you had by chance. But I have not. So it documents how New York wants a unique, amazing, bustling marketplace of ideas. has become a place where everyone from Scottsdale to Maine and Chicago and Idaho, they all come to New York. And if they're rich enough, they live in the West Village and then just basically set up their pre-existing life. But now in New York. I don't. And then about seven years later. They finally find a guy who has enough money and is bald enough, and they'll buy a house and then move to Austin. They'll move to Westchester. But it says, a new generation has transformed the neighborhood and reshaped the fantasy of New York City living. So, yeah, I mean, it is a cobblestone paradise, Jason. But at what cost, as you would say? At what cost? Well, the joke is on New York, you know, because New York wants this place that would, you know. Settle the scores. The streets are hard, so I got to be harder. Pimps and hoes on every corner. Break-ins, fires, crimes, stabbings, drugs. If this was really such a problem and everyone was really so upset about it, they would do something about it. But they're just going to sit back and watch as West Village turns New York into a Stanley mug factory. Well, nothing is safe from that. And that's the thing. And what you just described sounds like. any major city when it was good and that's the problem is that once the rivians and once the rivians and the stanley's come in it's it's there's nowhere to hide so so some people are like why do i why move to austin when we can just make austin in the west village and then everyone in new york was like we weren't going to go there anyway so as long as y'all don't have any plans on expanding yeah you can dabble into a little bit of the meat pack and

Some people will be okay with Chelsea, some people less so. We like the breakfast tacos. I guess that's fine if you want to run that program here. For brunch, though? Wow. Oh, my God. Do you think I could get breakfast tacos and fries, or is that crazy? If we do Sky Ting after, then yes. We're walking home. If I don't get my fucking steps, I swear to God. Do I know anyone that has a pool? Like anyone? I'm going to fucking kill myself. I guess speaking of West Village people, I've noticed the epidemic of Trader Joe's tote bags has really peaked, especially in my suburban neighborhood. They're like on eBay. And seeing photos online on eBay for hundreds of dollars. It's a cool trend if you're a young person, I guess. It's really not. What does it say about you? You like cheap groceries? I understand the New Yorker tote, you're saying you're smart. You know what I mean? The Erwan tote, you're saying you're healthy and rich and you voted for Trump. What does the TJ's tote signal? I think when they started making them smaller, then they became cute. They're cute. It becomes, I guess, whatever, restaurant merch. I love snacks is a funny personality is all I'm saying. I love proprietary snacks is all I can think about when I think about Trader Joe's. I don't really go to Trader Joe's at all, but sometimes I'll get a frozen chocolate-covered banana coin for a guilt-free dessert. Oh, delish. Okay, we have a guest. Yeah, Eugene. Eugene K is in the building. If you know how to pronounce his last name, I'll give you $100. He's got a new film. Friends of the show know Eugene appeared on our pod a few years ago, and it was definitely an instant fan favorite heads no type of episode. He's a unique mind. I think last when we spoke to him, it was maybe around COVID time. He was living in a flat somewhere in Koreatown.

And things surely have changed. I think he lives in the Vatican now is what it looks like. And also, most importantly, I mean, he made a movie. It's cool. Dasha's in it, whatever. But he just flew in from Newark Airport, and he lived to tell the tale. So let's give him a buzz. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know. have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian. stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but still put together. I don't look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Hey, let me just say one thing first, guys. Please, please, please. Kotliarenko. Eugene Kotliarenko, and I'm ready for my $100 now. I couldn't say that if you said it to me five times and wrote it down phonetically. Guys, this isn't a lesson. This is me cashing in on the $100 offer. Okay. I'm still living in the same shitty apartment in Korea Town. What you're calling the Vatican, I don't know if you guys have upgraded your podcast to a visual format or anything like that. It sounds like no.

based on what you guys are standing in front of but this vatican-esque with this vatican-esque looking thing right here this is it yeah i don't know if you guys have heard of ai this is an ai generated image i made um of a kind of 14th and 15th century italian court that i overlooked and it's so hot i feel perfectly aligned with this moment the first american pope yeah We are so excited for the pup. I want to ask you about this top that you're wearing, because it almost looks like what the barber puts on you before he gives you a buzz. I mean, I knew you would. I knew you would. Eugene, I have another follow-up. You look like you're wearing chef's whites, but obviously in black because you're a badass, and you're drinking your water out of a spent jam jar. Bon-bon-bon-bon-bon-bon. The bon-bon-bon jar. So that's very chef-coated, isn't it? Chef Coded for the code. This is, of course, a code-coded episode for the new film, The Code. We're going to crack this code, brother. We're going to crack this code. Look, this is the thing. This thing I'm wearing, which, by the way, you might have to upgrade to a visual episode just for this one. I hope you're recording the visuals, sweetie, because people aren't going to understand what the fuck's going on here. I will say a few things. You guys know a little bit about fashion? Sure. Correct? Sure. Correct. Sure. There are certain features to this shirt. that you could clue you in, almost like a clue, to quote the film, of what I'm wearing. Now, you see these snap buttons? They're very special type. And then there's this pocket here. I don't know if you can see it. It's tough with your background, but I see you fingering it now. I know, but you see how the pocket slants down? Yes, a slanted pocket, a slash pocket. So those two things might alert you to a certain designer. I don't know, but let's leave it on the table. What I'm going to say is this. Before I even got into what they call haute couture, before I could afford to spend more than $8 and never more than $75, never more have I spent than $75, I always did this thing, which maybe is a problem. Maybe you guys would consider it problematic. Some call it chef corps, but at this point I admit it's almost like stolen valor from the kitchen. I saw chef corps.

regalia and things like that in thrift stores and thought, this looks super good to me. Okay. So is this an engineered garment that you're wearing, Eugene? Sorry for interrupting. This article of clothing is by a designer named Thierry Mugler. Okay. This diva. Yeah, Miss Diva. Bro, you're a damn bitch. You just said my shit. My chef's blacks are from Mugler? Yeah, yeah. Thierry. Yeah, Thierry Mugler. And I don't know, but the thing is... Eugene spent all the budget on Grail. Damn. I would never use Grail. It's way too expensive. I would never use Grail or Depop. There's no deals to be had there. I prefer things like Poshmark, eBay, Etsy, and then eventually I did discover, of course, the thing that I don't want to say on your show because all the listeners will flock there and ruin it for me. God, what, Laura Kaleji? Or is it... I'll bleep it out. Oh, you want to bleep it out? Yeah, we'll bleep it. It's called... Oh, yeah. I know you know. I know everybody knows. I'm not saying you guys don't know. I'm not saying the listeners don't know. All I know is that when it trickles down and matriculates and when the extra piss, that extra piss that makes the underwear wet. I've heard about that. I've heard that's why every man blows out the crotch of his jeans. We've explored that on this podcast. Some of my raw denim heads might disagree, but that's a theory that's been floated. Well, here's the thing. It's even more difficult for a guy like me from the Soviet Union. Jewish as they come, circumcisions illegal, uncircumcised. So that trickle, it lives on even as much as you want to get it with the extra toilet paper. It lives on in the foreskin. It's a dangerous game for me. It creates a biodome. Yeah. What kind of pants do you wear? I mean, that's a tough question. You need some like kind of piss retarded trousers. You wear waders most days, right? Yeah. You just go fishing. I need some piss retarded pants.

I honestly right now, I'm like, this is my, I just got off the plane. Like you guys said, I'm wearing my plane outfit and I am wearing like honestly pissed retarded pants. They're of a material that I couldn't even begin to describe. It's kind of like a honeycomb of fabrics. It's odd. I couldn't describe it. Maybe a rip stop kind of thing. If I saw you dress like this in the first class cabin coming from Newark to LA, I would be like, all right, what did this guy invent? is where i'm going with like what did this guy i'm like what did this guy do what's going on just a new a new type of fucking egg beater yeah this guy didn't this guy didn't invite no he didn't invent no app This guy didn't invent no new coin, no music coin. This guy invented an egg beater that you can operate with your cock. Look, that's how people get actually rich. This cool guy shit. I'll tell you what, making movies ain't going to do it. That's not going to do it. You know what I mean? It ain't going to do it. Listen, I was in the first class, but we'll give you guys a little bit of a hack. This is a hack as of this morning because I didn't realize it. It might not be a hack because usually you need to verify twice. Luckily, you got two of us right here, Huge. No, no, what I mean is two-factor authentication from the source. All right, text me the code. Text me the code, and then we'll get it done. Well, people should watch the code. I'm going to plug the code every few minutes just naturally. You'll see what the code is about. It's not as simple as what you think. That's a seamless ad, isn't it? One of these seamless ads that you've been paid to do just use the names of companies organically. I wish. I wish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's such a fucking Uber Eats episode over here. um in my chef gear you know i'm always rocking the chef gear when i order uber eats oh um yeah um no i don't want to say that i did i there are a few like shirts and not great pants but shirts in my closet from like you know when i'm going thrift stores all the time that are really beautifully designed chef things because the whole thing about chef gear is that it like protects you from the oil splatter so there's like a lot of like

inventive ways to create that like protective front and it looks cool okay so this is the hack this hack i uh flew to la from new york on alaska airlines alaskan airlines or whatever and i i and i'm i found a cheap ticket and i'm thinking okay this is the same as you know frontier spirit i'm about to be in for a nightmare um i knew it was one of those airlines that didn't have tv screens but i actually kind of secretly like that so that i can like work you know and not like catch not catch up on my guy richie i love to catch up on my you know you huge i hate movies guy richie i get a he gets a pass that's what i'm saying i love to catch up on my guy richie like on an airplane is where i catch up on my guy richie i like that you're catching up on it when he puts out a movie every nine years but no you're crazy man you don't see you don't tv though tv i thought it was tv No, wrong again, my brother. You are not a cinephile. What you don't understand is that Guy Ritchie is running circles around all the other auteurs, okay? You don't understand that Guy Ritchie made all the Sherlock Holmes movies. You don't understand that Guy Ritchie made Aladdin for Disney, live-action Aladdin. You don't understand that Guy Ritchie... If you don't understand, Guy Ritchie made a movie starring Jake Gyllenhaal called The Covenant, which is not a crime thriller, which is not one of these funny blokes with guns sort of films. I only like the funny blokes, so that's why I'm missing. No, no. Because I'm not going to watch Aladdin. You must see The Covenant. Okay. All listeners of this show must see The Covenant. Available on Mubi, promo code howlong at checkout. No, The Covenant, I don't think is on Mubi. How bad is live action Aladdin directed by Guy Ritchie? Okay, so here's the deal. Is that you, Aladdin? Who saw this then? What? I was impressed by the little monkey. They had a good combo between a real monkey and a CGI monkey. Wow, that's for the heads. That's real. Okay, you're a filmmaker. Speaking of seamless. No, no, here's what I think. I didn't fully commit. It was between two movies. I bought a ticket for one movie.

I snuck into the second one. There's about an hour in between how you kill that hour. You walk into Aladdin. I have to be real. I got to be real. This is how I'm on. I got to be real. I didn't know at the time it was Guy Ritchie. So I'm sitting there and I am stunned. i am i'm flabbergasted by the sequences they are really impressive there are some sequences that go through all along the rooftops following this little monkey and then like aladdin and jasmine aladdin and jasmine are incredibly romantic in this way that's like almost like 1930s screwball but you can tell that they got they got a great chemistry and then i was like i almost don't want to leave this but i'd like told myself a little bit OCD style that I'm going to see the second movie. And then I was like, who the fuck made that? Like, who made that? I was like, Guy Ritchie, that explains it. He also, by the way, recently had a King Arthur retelling where they're kind of blokey criminals, where King Arthur, like... just grows up being a little con man, like a little gangster, and doesn't realize it. Was that a TV show or a movie? These are all movies. Now, on top of these movies, yes, I agree. He makes TV shows. And I also have enjoyed the TV shows. I don't watch TV. I like that you agree that he makes TV shows. It's a fact, actually, so I don't know. I agree with your fact, but your fact is couched in obliviousness because you weren't aware of the plethora of films. Wrath of Man is another one starring Jason Statham with the heist film in L.A. How do you have time for all this bullshit? Don't you have to make money? By the way, it's not bullshit. And double, by the way, my last two years of my life have been shameful. In terms of my movie watching, I have gone from watching maybe something like... It used to be like 150 a year was like really low. And now if I can hit 150, if I can hit 100 the last, like nowadays, I'm like, I'm happy. Right, right, right. Well, I mean, adjust for inflation, adjust for COVID. We're still recovering. So don't beat yourself up. Yeah, we're still COVID recovering.

Yeah, my movie watching has that long COVID. That is fucked up. That is a fucked up thing. Well, is it because that you have replaced it a little bit with some reality television? I feel like on Eugene's The Code, there was a lot of reality film music stings going on. That's true. I asked that, you know, the composer. Mischievous. Thank you. Yeah, this guy Dylan Brady, he's awesome. Yeah, I know Dylan. Yeah, he's awesome. He's a producer. He has a band called 100 Gex. He has a record label. And he's a very lovely person. And he said, so what's the vibe? I sent him some scenes. I said, let's do like reality TV music, but way stupider. He said, stupider than that? I'm like, yes. He's like, I've got just the thing. And I said, as you like dumbify it, as you, you know, degraded. Think about the Pink Panther theme song. I like that Dylan Brady's publishing deal was big enough where he could do this for fun. That's good for everyone. It is funny you mention that. Basically every single person on the film, including me, got a flat rate. keep the budget low we all got paid exactly the same the lead actors all the all the crew members there weren't that many crew members only like 13 people and dylan as well he came in late in the game and i said hey we're doing it like this and he said cool man i get it he's in the spirit of it And then, of course, that was before anyone talked to any of his reps. And they were like, what the fuck is this? And, you know, they honored the handshake deal. Well, he's their boss, so he can tell them. Dylan never once complained, and he gave me so much time. He's really, like, so beautiful. And I hope no one ever... exploits him like that again i mean it's not really exploitation because every single person was paid the same you know but in terms of i guess what he deserves um i hope no no one ever uh i hope he gets paid you know commensurate with his skill which is very high and i hope every person who worked on this film gets paid commensurate with their skill which is very high including fucking me i hope i get paid one day commensurate i have some questions i have some questions who gave you the money to do this to begin with

One of the reasons why I haven't been able to watch movies the last two years is because I kind of got a full-time job. Of course, I've had many full-time jobs over the years, being an editor, an art department. I worked at a 3D company. I had all sorts of horrible corporate jobs that I eventually quit. But now, basically what happened is Spree... was the first film that was produced and financed, not only by Drake. It was partly financed and produced by Drake, but also by a company called Space Maker. Shout out to our Dream Crew family. They're down right now, but they're not out. I see the vision, broski. I see the vision, broski. Hey, let me just say this. Crody, this is a sick script. Working with the people at Dream Crew for spring was like a delight. I don't know if you guys probably never had a chance. You guys probably never had a fucking chance to deal with quote unquote film execs. They're the worst people because they need to justify their existence by flexing their taste, which is zero to none. I've watched the studio on Apple TV. I get it. I get it. I totally understand now. You're probably too close to it. You're too close to it. I'm too close to it. Their taste is nil balls. And their confidence in flexing is highballs. So it's a horrible company. So with Dream Crew, those guys, I think because they come from a music background where you respect the musician, you just try to support them and surround them with other people who can make it better. Their input wasn't like, fix this, do this. Their input was like, we like this. Great. So that's exactly what a fucking filmmaker and artist wants to hear. We like this. You don't want to hear, what if we did this? It's never good. I thought part of the fun of the filmmaking process as an auteur is to argue with the suits about your vision. Collaboration. Hell no. I love collaboration. But when it comes from people who don't watch movies and don't...

live and breathe movies and certainly are not in the trenches, I could give a fuck. And I'm actually really bad at manipulating and lying. That's my, that's why I remain independent. That's not true. I've talked to some of your exes and they said you're really good at that. That is not true. That's not true. Let's get some of my exes on the phone right now and ask them. Well, so wait, wait. So you got a job. I want to hear about your job. So I am, I am like basically, I guess 40 hours a week is full time. I'm like the full time producer. at this company space maker okay i joined the company two years ago because i i saw the you know i kind of liked all the projects they were doing after spree and i kind of you know connected them with some of the filmmakers that i'm friends with and stuff and and the the guys there alex and ricardo have become my, my best friends. And we hang out every day. And at least virtually we talk every day and we go, and we go through the trials and tribulations of film producing, which ain't easy. I do not begrudge any producers out there. They're very different than studio execs. Producers. Are the people in the trenches with you? It's a different kind of slime. But, yeah, you know, I'm not mad. Are you able to work from home or do you have to go to Santa Monica a few days a week? We have no office. We keep our costs, like, insanely low. We have no overhead. Jason, we're super nimble, actually. We actually got into a huge fight recently where this guy was trying to, like, this fucking rep was trying to, like, really fucking fuck us for some rate. And then and we're like, look, we got your client like fucking business class like the day before. And he's like, you guys are producers. Like you fucking fly first class. Like we fly economy. OK, man, like our overhead in our company is low. We want all the fucking money to end up on screen in the movie. Eugene, Eugene, what if what if maybe you thought about yourself for a second? You know what I mean? I love that. I can't do that. I can't do that. Okay, I do think about myself because how do I get the money to make my movie? So I feel like a weird monk doing penance for God. It's like if I put all this hard work and don't sleep at all and don't ask for anything in regards to these other people's movies that I'm helping out with, then when it's time for me to make my fucking movie, I can shamelessly ask for it.

you know, the dirt cheap rates that I need to make the code, you know? You don't feel so bad making that ask. I don't feel bad. And this is all personal. Everything's personal to me. Now, if I get in some studio-ass system and all the rates are set and my agents can do their shit and all that, I'm running away. I'm Mr. Moneybags. Take me to the bank, you know, get me the Lamborghini. When Team Huge finally comes through with some of those big deals. Yeah. Where the fuck is Team Huge? Let's get the X's on the show right now. Let's get my fucking reps on the show. I thought you said, it sounds like you have a large team working for your success. I mean, if you want to shout anybody out at, you know. Yeah. Several agencies. Yeah, you are the people's champ, which is why you're a two-timer on How Long Gone. Because you have a, and it's not because I think that you're a manipulative person. Well. I think people really just. people love your energy and your vision and they want to be a part of the of the ride i don't care what the movie's about i just want you to do it you know i know chris did you even watch it no of course not i asked you twice i said hey man i got tickets for you live in new york it looks like you live in like a hotel room are you like living in a booth you live in a boutique i am no i'm in a hotel i'm in nashville right now i would have maybe for an irl experience but i can't watch of screener on a laptop. I just can't do it. I would have come to the theater. Since Jason saw it, Jason could tell you it actually probably would look pretty interesting on a laptop. What do you think, Jay? No, it's not that I'm like a I need to see it in 70mm with popcorn. I was able to screen mirror it to my Samsung flat screen. I can't concentrate. One click of a button. Yeah, I can't sit through a movie. I know, who can? I love you. No, here's the thing, sweetheart. I make these movies. for people who can't sit through a movie. Yes, they are constructed, conceived, and visualized so that you are not even tempted to look at your phone because there's so much shit going on on screen that emulates the same brain, the brain, like, desires that your phone, like, has implanted in you so that you fucking have to, it's activating all the same shit.

But you're getting a narrative, you're getting characters, you're getting laughs, you're getting maybe a few tears. This is actually a good pitch, I have to say. That is interesting and a good approach. Yeah, because I would say half the film, you're just looking at what you would see on your phone, except Eugene is in control of what is on your phone. And oftentimes, whatever Eugene has on the phone is... is quite interesting okay so you're quite entertaining you're saying red scare patreon is just on the phone and i can see it that's i think well i mean it's really interesting you said that because it is a slice of like modern internet life and it's like you have a certain amount of check boxes that you need to hit i need a little bit of twitter i need a little instagram any little porn a little little news i need a little this this and you and you run it it's not like here's the part where we do the porn scene and here's the part where we do the tiktok scene It flows in and out seamlessly the entire time. So your attention span really is kept. I never looked at my phone a single time. Thank you, man. Let me pose. That's a huge accomplishment in today's day and age. We'll get the lie detector out later, but sure, I'll leave you for now. I was doing foam rolling and some recovery while I was – so I was technically multitasking. Look, working on mobility doesn't mean working on your mobile. We know those are two different things, and I would like to – I just want to make that very clear. That was surprisingly witty. Do you guys set that one up ahead of time or something? Just the first of many traps you've fallen into, Eugene. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung, TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, La Grange, Georgia, Charleston. South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Discover the spectacular contrasts of rural and urban spaces in this adventure of driving. Explore different universes and beautiful landscapes on the wheel of 550 cars. Joues to the premium edition of Forza Horizon 6 on Xbox and PC. The Japan waits. Well, it was surprisingly witty, but also it had a kind of Jimmy Fallon-esque patina, you know, if you know what I mean. Let me say this. Let me say this. Just for you guys and for your audience and for Chris who hasn't seen the movie, it's actually good that you haven't seen it because then you're almost like the audience surrogate. And then Jason is kind of like the converted. Okay, so it's perfect. Do you not derive – and Chris, you live in New York City. I'm not trying to dox you or anything, but you live in Manhattan. Is that true? That's true.

And I'm not trying to dox you. It's probably in a cool neighborhood. Let's say you live in the heart of Dimes Square. I'm not trying to dox you. I do not live in the heart of Dimes Square. I know, I know. I knew you'd say that because you don't want people to know the truth. It's fine. So don't worry about it. We'll catch you at the Metrograph. We're just speaking hypothetically. Don't worry, Chris. Five years from now, Eugene retrospected after he dies. Okay, so here's the thing. Here's the thing. Do you not ever derive pleasure? And I know you often take probably Uber XLs and cabs. Once in a while, you deign to get onto the subway. I love the subway, actually. I have an efficiency kink, so I'm trying to get there as fast as possible. Oh, I see. I'm actually the one who doesn't do the subway, but that is one thing. Well, you live in LA. Jason, you live in LA, don't you? Yeah, I do. But when I go to New York. I see. Well, may I recommend next time you go to New York, I was just there, take the subway. One of the greatest pleasures of modern times is standing. you know, between the doors and looking over the shoulders of people who are on their phones. And you can see them playing. You're speaking my language. Exactly. They're playing Temple Run. They are texting their girlfriends or their husbands. I need your cock. sweetie um or we we must we must kill the children my dear it's crazy it's crazy you're saying this because today on my flight to nashville yes the guy in the seat in front of me had his font on a hundred thousand yeah of course he was he looked he was a regular he was like a businessman like looked like a consultant kpmg employee yeah yeah just fully talking about getting bent over by his man while he wears cowboy boots correct because he was in nashville And I was like, this is good. This is what I'm talking about. It's amazing. So I have noticed this over the years. I'm a filmmaker, so I try to observe the world through a cinematic bent. And I say, this is the arc of voyeurism, right? Like, you know, cinema is all about... the kind of voyeuristic like potential for the viewer to be engaged in things we don't normally see. And it is like shameful and obvious to me that you wouldn't incorporate that into a movie. And so from maybe over 10 years ago, I have been incorporating these looks into the naughty bits and into the very personal possibility of seeing other people's phones, you know, OPP, other people's phones on screen famously.

And it is, I think, a successful set piece that I have explored through, you know, my last four movies. I agree. You've become the master of that set piece, I would say. Thanks. And I think I've reached kind of like my my peak here on this one. And I don't really plan. I'm moving on to like more traditional cinema after this movie. But I think I've figured out all the things I've been working on the last. you know 15 years in this movie i would say without giving any spoilers away i would say the the end credits are kind of your love letter to that particular style that that would be your magnum opus that's your white album of thanks phone shit thanks and it's full circle i think with my first movie zeros and ones which i finished 15 years ago it's coming out on blu-ray another plug in a few months but the opening credits of that movie are like a computer boots up And then all of the icons and the desktop apps open up. And so you get the credits in that movie there. That was the first thing I ever did. And now here's the last thing I ever did in this style. And now I'm ready for my Scorsese flick. So what do you mean? Okay, I thought you were going to go Nancy Meyers downtown, and I like that idea. No, that's not the vibe. My movies do have a Nancy Meyers vibe. This is my third, I guess you'd call it, relationship comedy. Some call it a rom-com. Yeah. I don't know if you'd really call it that. I do either. Yeah, yeah. But it's a classic style of film, a rom-com, but I haven't really seen a film that captures the, you know, tackling the subject of how relationships were affected during COVID. In a way that's, like, a comedy and also quite serious and dealing with, like, as real and honest of situations as possible. It's not just, like, an Adam Brody Netflix comedy oops-a-daisy thing, you know? Now, here's the thing the viewers will never know. But I knew, going into this shit, the look on Chris Black's face when you said COVID? is, of course, the look that I knew and that motherfuckers would do if you ever told anyone it was a COVID movie. So I've never summarized it as a COVID movie. I've never led with COVID because to me, this is my pitch. You want to hear my pitch for the film? A couple who's paranoid that the other person is trying to cancel them sets up hidden cameras around their house to try to entrap the other person into problematic behavior as a form of insurance. And in the process,

may or may not fix their relationship. So, like, there's no fucking COVID in that. It's about cancel. It's about little sneaky, little trapping. Hee-hee, ha-ha. We all know how it feels. Paranoia. You made, like, Epstein fun. Don't say that. That's the quote. That's the quote for the poster. Jason Stewart, Epstein fan, says this is finally a film to get Epstein's fun factor right. Well, just the theme of... blackmailing people with hidden cameras doing cancelable acts or potentially worse correct but that's a subject that is very dark and eerie and the more you think about it the more troubling it becomes and you made it fun i bet eugene's been on some questionable private plans in his time but i don't want to i don't want to push on whose it was I'm comfortable, you know, and this isn't like a challenge for people listening to try to cancel me, but I'm comfortable making a film that is making fun of canceled problematic people and also making fun of the mechanisms of cancel culture. Because I generally view myself as a person who's very transparent. Obviously, I... hurt people along the way who hasn't it's human you don't do it intentionally you try to hurt as few people intentionally as possible in life and then you can live with and then you can live with yourself and um it's very hard you know um but i i don't i've never been on these like evil in these evil places and by the way what is an evil it's very you know i i believe everything now but like you know what i mean they talk about fake news i i actually believe now we're talking news i hear what about house music bro what do you mean i believe house music i i mean what are you saying it doesn't exist it exists believe house music is a rallying cry for sure you asked what name a thing that isn't evil and i made a joke that sort of electronic dance music perhaps is pure of heart and we all know that's not true jason but i like where your head's it was it was a

You made that joke in the dead zone between being a zinger and a callback. It wasn't exactly after I'd said the thing, but it wasn't like... It's a twinger. Yeah, that's not a real word, but yeah. It's an in-between zinger. Okay, sorry for interrupting. Sorry for interrupting. Not at all. COVID this, cancellation that. It's a great flick. I think it'll be out, you know, tonight we're showing it in Ojai, but I'm sure this episode won't be out tonight. It'll be playing in New York. Who are you showing it to in Ojai? I don't know, but we already have 70 pre-sold tickets, and I think the theater only has 100 seats. So people are going Google Gaga for the code. I don't know. They're making a weekend trip out of it. We're getting a babysitter and we're bringing the good bottles of wine. I'm having some ramps at Rory's place and then going to see you just flick. What if we had like half a mushroom chocolate and watched The Code 2025? Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't even say. I just posted. This is for the surrealists. This is for the hikers and the farmers, the surfers and the charmers. But I didn't even get into like, you know, the dosers. The dosers and the trippers. I didn't even do that. I would love to see you in. I just want to see you walking around Ojai, really. No offense to you guys. This is my big podcast today. Talking about ramps, this is me ramping up for the next one, which is also my second time on Brett Easton Ellis' podcast. I got that later. Then I have to drive up to Ojai. I'm desperate to make the Q&A. Because they couldn't push the showtime. So you have a press tour going straight into, from Hell and Gone to Bredys and Ellis, available on Patreon only. Zip into the car straight up to Ojai. If there's no traffic, you'll make it. Correct. The life of a Hollywood movie star. This is exciting. This is the stuff that gets the blood. How fast does the Maserati go? Can you really push it? Or is it going to be... My dear friend Brandy, who also produced one of my films, A Wonderful Cloud, she...

asked me a few weeks ago, she said, I might go to Ojai. Do you want a ride? I said, I would love that. We haven't caught up in a while, so it'll be a great opportunity to catch up. I'll probably have to download this edit of a movie I'm producing, and while she drives, I have to make notes and watch it. It'll be a great catch-up. I was thinking, I don't want to talk about COVID too much. Wait, can I just say one thing that's amazing, because people won't get this? Yeah. Jay Stu. Jay Stu. He stands during the show. Oh, don't worry. He lets people know that. We've talked about it. Oh, he does? Oh, sorry. I don't talk about it that much. No, no, no. I don't mean it like that. I just mean, we've discussed it before because there was a point where... I think it's great. You didn't have that. He's in the recording studio. Contraption. He looks like he's about to belt out an Amy Winehouse cover. That's why we call him Jay Unit when he's standing up. Yeah, I'm always about to drop a sweet 16. On the radar. This is on the radar. If we turn on the green light, it's over. These are all terms I don't understand. There's a whole universe of kind of fuckboy terminology, hypebeast type stuff that you guys work with that I don't know. Have you ever listened to any rap music, Eugene? Rap? Yeah, of course. Okay, I didn't know. I recently listened to the guy, Dave Bluntz, you know, who I guess is responsible for the new... My man. Can't put down the cup. That's our... Favorite artist on how long gone. It was weird. It was weird. The two things we listened to, I was just at a friend's house. He turned on YouTube and put on the Dave Blunt's. And then we, one of the movies that produced is called magic farm. And one of the stars is Alex Wolf. um and i guess when he was a kid he was in a tv show with his brother called naked brothers band yeah yeah no that was that was big i don't know what that is and so we were alternating between like a dave blunt song and a naked brothers band song and we were having a good time that sounds like a twisted mind fuck it was it was like 4 a.m and it was a strange assortment of people in like a weird apartment but it was not a weird apartment like a weird uh airplane like you were talking about it was a weird apartment just you know it's innocent

Sure. Regular weird. In your professional opinion, what percentage of Airbnbs do you believe have hidden cameras in them? Oh, I don't like to think about stuff like that. I would say... Nobody does. Yeah, I would say between 15% and 20%. Yeah, sounds about right. Do you think there's anything that Airbnb can do to shake that stigma? I feel like that's like their... the nail in their coffin is that's the excuse everyone uses why they're that's not the excuse everybody uses i have to pay for a cleaning service but also clean up myself there's a long list of excuses but if you want to see me getting out of the shower that's fine but i ain't taking out the recycling that that's what that's fucking that's where i draw the line you can see my hole and my pole i ain't doing a dish no i was gonna say we brush our teeth before we go to the dentist it's a little more shame oriented than just like a job on a piece of paper you know it's kind of like how much shame do you have But maybe you have no shame, Chris. Maybe you're going to mess the place up on purpose the last 10 minutes. I wish that was the case. I wish that was the case. My life is nothing but shame. What are you doing in Nashville? Just checking out different chicken places and doing taste tests and stuff? Yeah, I'm doing one of those. the bars that are on wheels and you pedal. Oh, pedal bar. Pedal pub. I'm doing a pedal pub. It's me and the girls. Just going to lay out by the pool. Yeah, have some mimosas. Nothing crazy. I guess a few years ago, I'm always a few years behind the times when it comes to lame things. I guess a few years ago, Nashville was considered the kind of bachelor or bachelorette party capital of America. Is that why you're there? Are you getting married? No, no, no. I'm going to a show tomorrow. Like a band is playing. That's why I'm here. Oh, nice. You're in it or you just follow them around? You're like a groupie or something. I'm a groupie. Yeah. Oh, nice. I'm not in it. I famously can't play an instrument. I don't know if you're sick with the guitar. Do you play glockenspiel? I'm not good at anything. One time I saw someone playing a banjo when I was 19 in college. I thought that would be easy and fun. I'm not good at anything. It's famous that you're bad at music?

No, that was a joke. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. What did you say, the name of the band? Almost like a promotion? Yeah, we talked about it earlier. It's Waxahachie and Wilco. Oh, who talked about it? You and Jason? Yeah, before you got on. In the intro. Oh, nice. The listeners will know, but you won't. Yeah, sorry. I apologize. I was breaking the fourth wall. That's cool, man. Eugene, why did you have your lead characters wearing clogs? laceless shoes oh yeah what's up was there is there are there any easter eggs in the cloth yeah yeah i kind of enjoy um meeting with the costume designer and with the actors about who the character is through their clothes and i think that's a really great way for actors to figure out who they are how they present to the world whether it's comfort or optics whether it's generic or name brand whether it's whatever And one thing interesting that I've been doing a lot of Q&As with the actress, one thing interesting that Ivy, the young actress, comedian, diva, she's the ultimate, she's the new diva on the block, in my opinion, who plays Colette in the film. She was saying that before we started the film, we went and made that weird art film that's in the movie together, you know, like her character's movie within the movie. Rules of Attraction style. I went to her college campus, actually. She was a college student, and we pulled all her college friends, and we made this kind of fake Ryan Tricartan movie, you know, this video artist who puts the face paint on his friends and speeds shit up, and they say kind of transgressive signifiers of queerdom and stuff. It's really funny. Yeah, thanks. So I she said that making that helped her understand who the character was and that she wants to and I'm going to steal this from her. She wants to figure out. in the future, how her characters use social media so that she can know who the character is. And I'm going to start doing that with future characters, too. Thinking not only about what clothes they wear, but also how they present online, whether they're active, whether they just have a fucking flip phone, whether they're funny, they understand memes or not, or whatever. Are they posters? Are they lurkers? Exactly. Are they reply guys? Chris, are you okay?

Chris is having some allergies right now, Eugene. Yeah, it sucks. I was going to say these boutique hotels and national tours for their black mold. Yeah, I'm going to die tonight for sure, but this is what we do. Check the vents for that BM, Chris. Watch out. Maybe get a little COVID mask on. Do not talk about... my fucking bm like that when you were a teenager watching that uh wilco documentary i will break your heart or whatever it's called did you did you did you think my ideal death is at the wilco concert and so i never i never thought i think if i die i've said before i want to crash in a helicopter or a plane that's the coolest way to go i think for me It was so tragic when we were showing one of the screenings at Sundance. We came out and the second the lights went up, someone said before the Q&A, oh my God, Kobe just died. And everyone was shocked, and it was horrific. And I don't think it was cooler because he died in a helicopter. I think it was more tragic. Yeah, tragic is cooler. I don't want Kobe to die in his sleep. That's fucking boring. If he really is Mamba, he's got to go out. Kobe never said, I want to die in a helicopter. When Kobe died, it was very close to my house, actually, and it was very tragic because he was just trying to go someplace. Chris has proclaimed it already. Well, he forced the pilot to fly in not ideal conditions. Which is very rehearsal coded right now, isn't it, Eugene? But this is the beautiful part, actually. And this is the part that's tragic and emotional and beautiful. And I guess a helicopter is involved. The reason he forced it, right? He wanted to go to his daughter's basketball game. I'm familiar with what he was doing. He was pressuring his daughter to follow in his footsteps. Oh, my God. I get it. I get it. Why do you have such a negative narrative? It's so beautiful, tragic, and poetic. I think we all know that Kobe, as great as he was, was probably a monster. I don't think he's known for being a sweet guy. There were allegations, but I think he beat the allegations. No, not the allegations. Chris said this goat's bucking. I'm just saying it's Michael Jordan shit. He's a monster, and everybody knows it, but he's still the best. We'll call him a mini monster. Doesn't change the fact that his dad got killed for his gambling debt. What?

You mean Michael Jordan? Yeah. Now you're conflating. I don't know enough about any sportsmen to really comment on their personality, nor would I. Did you guys see this movie called The Brutalist? No, I can't sit through that shit. Jesus. I will see it one day. I just saw the... I didn't talk to him. He seemed very involved with other people, but I just saw the director yesterday. And I really wanted to tell them that the end game of that, if you can make it to the end, it has great payoff because part of the idea is that you've watched this character who's extremely problematic and admirable. He's a victim and also a traumatizer. He is a drug addict and also a person who is above moral standing and all this shit. You're watching, you're watching, trying to figure out how you feel about the guy. At the end of the day, it's like, what did they make? What did they do? What did they add to the world? Because to judge people based on their character, every person is flawed. Every person has angels and demons. You know what I mean? And so we're all about context now. It's crazy. We live in a culture now where we judge people immediately based on the surface, and then we try to fill in the surface as fast as possible with context bullshit. And really, that's sick. It's a sick way. We have to judge everyone right away. Seems fine to me. I mean, that's just what we're doing. I don't know. What's the other option? So when Diddy dies, so you just described also Diddy kind of matches all those characteristics and criteria. When Diddy dies, he will be most known for being a guy who sampled some hits from the 80s and made it sound so crazy? I don't know. Discovering Notorious B.I.G.? That's how I feel. I accept everything, and whatever happens in the discourse happens in the discourse. Like the star of my film, Dasha, a lot of people hate her. A lot of people want her to be over. I love Dasha. She's my close friend. Congratulations to Dasha, recently married. Yes, congratulations to Dasha who's married and having a nice life and all that. I want her to have a nice life. I also don't want her to hurt other people virtually. I mean, she doesn't hurt anyone in real life, like physically, but she...

I guess has hurt a lot of people psychologically or something. Sure. I don't, I don't like that, but I accept that. I, I, I accept that she should just do whatever she wants. Um, I know she doesn't have ill will or ill intention. And I also accept if, if people hate her, you know what I mean? Well, that's the, that's the problem is that people, I mean, if you put yourself out there, that's all they have to go on for better or worse. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it's just part of the discourse is what I mean. you know like like there was one theater where we were showing the movie and a lot of people were commenting and like don't show this movie fuck this theater and all this stuff and i felt terrible for the uh the theater owner who probably didn't even see that stuff because he's not he's like a boomer can you imagine being like a boomer and not understanding what like online activism is or who dosh you don't know what red scare is i mean this is like a privilege in today's world he's not even in the reddit yeah exactly he's not even the reddit But I accept all that stuff. It's part of the discourse. I've never wanted to squash the conversation. And so I guess whatever happens with Diddy is going to happen with Diddy. And if he did lots of bad things, he should get in trouble. If he did lots of illegal, horrible things, he should get in trouble. I agree. I mean, the movie is about all this stuff. I suggest people see the movie. If you can't see it in theaters, it's going to be out on Mubi. May 16th, there's a service called Mubi. Or you can rent it on Apple. Well, how much is it on Apple, though? Is it $19.99? I don't know. I don't set the prices. I know the one time that I did set the price for my movie on Apple, I said, let's sell it the first week for $0.99. That was the thing I really pushed for. Cool idea. Because I've never bought anything on iTunes. And I don't think it... dude like it's not like oh it's 99 cents suddenly we're gonna like a million people are gonna buy it i was like a million people buy a million people that's a million dollars you know even at 99 cents a bridge too far well no it's not it you guys must know about this there's sort of like there's a happy medium of

pricing things where people feel like they're getting a deal, but they still feel like it's worth the money they spend. Yeah, it's a dance. Yeah, and I don't know what that number is, but I leave it to my distributor to figure that out. Of course. Sweet dance of value. Speaking of prices, how long do you think until bottled oxygen will become a luxury flex in our near dystopian future? Chris, you don't get that, which is why you're coughing and yawning. You're kind of over this episode already. Chris does get it. He is actually... very aware of the canned oxygen and he put me onto it before i discovered no no no he doesn't get that that's also a reference to the film that's like one of the motifs in the film that they're always using this canned oxygen oh i know that chris makes the world takes if that's what you're saying yeah i know i know that yeah i know that chris chris is merely upset because you stole it from him no well when did you get into it because i got into it um in 20 no i haven't i think it was 20 2022 uh that's when i first I incorporate it into the script because I saw it happening in 2020. I might have used it before that, but I didn't purchase my own. Correct. I might have used it somewhere, but then... It's a big thing in Aspen, one of my favorite cities. They like to... the more expensive the hotel, they'll have it stocked for you in the room. Yeah, exactly. That's where I experienced it, too. Like a kind of destination wedding that was in the mountains. Oh, I thought you were at the Telluride Film Festival. I wish. I've never invited things like that. I can't afford to go on my own. Well, the reason why I asked is because I enjoyed it over the wintertime, and my wife really took to it. And it almost, in the film, people begin to use it in a fiend-like way. Yeah. And I noticed that, like, by the end of our trip in Santa Fe, my wife and I were kind of, like, looking on Amazon, like, where can we get more of this shit? Like, it's some fucking nitrous, bro. I never used it. I couldn't figure out how to use it. I'm really bad at things like... breathing through my nose with no i've literally i don't think i've ever breathed and you could probably the listeners can hear how nasally i sound i think i have a deviated septum i don't think i've ever breathed effectively through my nose how much coke have you how much coke have you done very little because it has no effect on me because of my deviated septum it's almost like slow drip every nasal drug

It doesn't hit me because it's just a super slow drip. Nothing goes through. I'm kind of the same way as you, Eugene. Do you ever mouth tape? Do you ever mouth tape while you sleep? Not a joke. Mouth tape? No. No, no. I don't know what that means. You should give it a try. Is that good? I mean, you get a piece of like kind of 3M medical tape or just any type of tape that you could put on your skin, and you just a little four-inch chunk, put it over your mouth when you go to sleep, and then it'll force you to breathe through your nose. Because I have the same problem as you, and it's really been helpful for me. I like being a mouth breather. And I think, like, actually, there's a study that just came out from China by way of San Francisco. And they say there are certain people, there are certain genetic mutations in people that make it, they can have functional life with just three or four hours of sleep. And that's like me. And I think that comes from, I thought about this the other week. When I was a kid and I slept more than four hours, I would always wake up with a sore throat because I'm a mouth breather. Then I'd probably adapt it along the way. I don't want to wake up with a sore throat, so my body wakes me up after three or four hours. I'm basically pretty functional. You don't strike me as a big sleeper. I didn't sleep last night. I had to get to the airport, go to the airport at 4.30 a.m. I stayed up until whatever, packing, washing the sheets at my friend's place where I stayed over and all this shit. it's good that you're a producer now because this is really like that personality type because like if i don't yeah i don't have my full sleep i'm like a grumpy he gets very ordinary or yeah real ornery so it's cool i'm envious do they have a portmanteau you know like when you get hangry like it's hungry angry do they have one for sleep angry like slangry does anybody ever say that or that's good slangry sleep deprived angry i don't know i'll google it yeah google it Let me just say something. Oh, you know what I have? I haven't used the whatever thing.

the air. I just saw people using it at this wedding and I thought it looked so funny and it sounded funny. Just that huffing noise. It does. I mean, it's, it doesn't hit like the screen cleaner, but you know, it does something. Well, that's why I put it in the movie. Cause it sounded, it looked funny, but I have gotten addicted to this, not addicted, but to this one thing I've never bought. I've obviously used, not obviously, but for a long time, I never used drugs. I was maybe 27, 28. Then someone. Kind of peer pressured me, but I guess I let it happen into mushrooms and like a beautiful, you know, virgin to wood. How can you resist? I can imagine. I can imagine what kind of person got you to do mushrooms and ain't a fella. No, here's the thing. No, no. I decided with my girlfriend at the time who also had never used drugs. It was a fella. He's had come out to this like. my family cabin in the woods it's beautiful and let's do this and i said okay and my first i don't know who's had it's like a trope it sounds like he was trying to fuck to me you better gotta be careful i think he had a friend crush you know this is trey way you know he might have invited i think he had a friend crush i've had a friend crush before but i didn't think It would turn into anything sexual. I think it's normal. You know, people admire each other. Not with you. No, not with some guys. Well, yeah, not with me. Exactly. I'm so repulsive to look at. No, no. I meant how could they resist? Oh, so it was it was a kind of reverse humor. OK, so. No. So let me talk about, OK, my first time using mushrooms. I think this has probably happened to many, many people who have not used drugs until they were adults and maybe fear drugs and the anti-drug propaganda worked on them. I wish I the mushrooms hit, you know, eventually. And then you just start looking at grass or your fingers and you start laughing uncontrollably. You think, oh, my God, my the veins and my fingers and every blade has its own ecosystem, whatever. Then you can't stop laughing. And then you go into a spiral where, oh, my God, I will soon be like the long bearded, unhoused guy who's 60 years old, walking around, still laughing, staring at his shoes, his torn shoes and his long toenails with the fungus in them and laughing at that. And that was my big fear the first time I did the mushroom trip. And then, of course.

It's subsided and everything's fine. But you know that like one hour that feels like a thousand years. Is it though? No, that could still happen, but I don't think I'd be. I know. Oh, that's an interesting question. Has the trip even worn off? Is that the implication you're asking? The implication is that you're forever changed from your first dose. I don't think so. Unfortunately, the insights and the energy of being on those psychedelics does wear off, at least the ones I've used. Like and the people I've met who have done the ayahuasca and stuff that supposedly stays with you. These are some of the most like delusional, like egomaniacal people I've ever met. They believe that they have like transcended the ego when in fact they are the most like weirdly overconfident and like annoying egomaniacal people I've ever met. And I don't know if they write that before or not. I've never met a person that I. stayed friends with that's done ayahuasca i've only met people in my life i met them post ayahuasca and i'm like you are insufferable It's one of the worst things. Plant medicine is one of the worst things that we've ever encountered as a species, I would say. Maybe the types of Western early adapters who would do that are just inherently insidious because they're kind of soft colonizers or soft imperialists or something like that. So maybe it just draws a certain type of personality that was already kind of egomaniacal before the fact. Well, let's look at the facts, though. You lay around with the homies and throw open a bucket. you know that's not really like who knows i mean these are rituals that have been like you know kind of developed and evolved over time they were related to other things beyond just these like yeah but when the homie when the homie shaman who also is a checkout guy a happier grocer invites you to his apartment in fort green right it ain't really i don't believe it I just don't believe it. You're going to a kooky lady's house in Malibu. Yeah, yeah. Well, I would say – I'm sorry. Go ahead, Eugene. No, no. You say something. I would say a good – For once. God damn it. A healthy alternative for going on that ayahuasca journey nowadays in 2025 with our phone addictions and everything, one of those 21-day retreats where you just eat turmeric brown rice, and they take your phone away from you, and there's no music. There's no TV.

And you just kind of go inward for a few weeks. I feel like the people I've talked to who go through that just as difficult and mentally, physically taxing. but they become enlightened and chill versus... Does it change them, though? Does it change them? Because the phone is an incredible drug. No, it doesn't. It's whatever makes you feel good, but it's bullshit. I mean, the phone is an insane drug, maybe the most insane one we've ever experienced, because it is directly related to a haptic sense, your sense of touch, which is your sense of intimacy. It involves itself with a virtual screen. that feeds your mind and dopamine and all these receptors through touch. And on this screen, what's on this screen? It's an ultimate narcissism machine. It reflects you back to you. It makes you the central character in the social media narrative that you activate, engage in, observe, and write the story. It lets you communicate immediately with everyone you care about. It gamifies romance, or it just completely jumps the shark and shows you porn. This machine is insane. It completely has rewired our brains, our pleasure centers, our expectations for what is communication. And I'm not complaining. I'm just like stating like kind of facts. No, you're right. And I think it's an impossible addiction for us to move away from. I wish Steve Jobs was still alive so we could question him about it, you know, because I this is OK. And it seems transitional. And I wish Kobe was still alive, you know, even though you say he's an evil guy or whatever. No, I wish Kobe was still alive, just to be clear. I wish they're all still alive. I think what I'm trying to say, though, is the person who pays $10,000 for the 21-day silent retreat, if they come out and don't say they're changed, they feel stupid. It's like reading a really long book. There's no choice. Yeah, but how can you not come out of that? being changed though because you go right back to your regular life it's like maybe yes maybe no i consider it to be to use an analogy from the phone a hard reset can do a lot of good but event it doesn't last forever eventually you're going to have to restart your computer on phone again i think it could do something i'm interested in the physical aspects as far as food intake but i think like being silent and not entertained for 21 days i think that just makes you

annoyed and then you go back and binge on your phone the same way you know like when you finish one of those food things you're supposed to you know broth and then fruit you know you have to like re reenter polite society and i think with with the phone there's no way to reenter it casually you either you know what i'm saying you either use it or you don't basically and if you haven't used it it's going to hit like a ton of bricks after two weeks jason let me ask you a question Is this your way of finally confessing to Chris, and I'm just a third party here, that you've been on one of these 21-day retreats? Because it sounds like you have been on one or maybe even several. You can be honest with us right now. I've never done one, but I talked to... But you believe in the power of it. If Jason left for 21 days, it would affect our bottom line. We got bills. You guys are just businessmen. I think last time I came on, I was kind of looking for some business advice. I can't remember if you gave any to me or not. I'll give you some business advice right now, Eugene. Don't make movies, okay? I agree. That ain't going to line your pockets. I absolutely agree that it is – Because I think you have one of the more twisted, brilliant minds in our society, but maybe your powers could be harnessed for good in another medium. No, no. I do think still movies are – the height of art like it just synthesizes all the stuff and it's the perfect intake 90 to 120 minutes i mean maybe not with everyone's attention span now but at least if you do commit to the bit of sitting there you might feel something transcendent it's like the perfect like runtime it's hard to feel transcendent with audio visual in although remember the movie up First seven minutes up gives you everything you need. Had a motherfucker crying. Well, I guess my business energy I'm putting out into the podcast world, hire Eugene to direct your commercial. Your Super Bowl commercial. Eugene will honestly make an amazing 30 to 90 second ad. For sure. It's going to make Eric Warheim look like what? Like Nancy Meyers. It's going to make Eric Warheim look like Nancy Meyers. And so honestly, he'll thank us for that. He'll be like, oh my God, thank you guys for hiring Eugene because now I'm like the new Nancy Meyers. My kitchen is so nice now after you guys hired Eugene. This is great.

My reps, they did say, I said, how come they're not fucking hiring me for Black Mirror? It seems a little bit like I should be at least in the running. I tell you what, if I'm your rep and I see that name pop up on the phone, I'm putting it to voicemail because I know you're calling me with some bullshit. Wait, what name pop up? Me? Your name. Yeah, if I'm your agent, I'm like, oh, this motherfucker's awesome. I don't ever fucking call them. You think I want to fucking call them? They call me. What do you got for me, Johnny? Yeah, yeah. What do you got? What do you got? What do you got? I don't call them being like, what's going on? Where's my job? They fucking call me with their garbage advice or their kind of like, wait, look, just so you know, we're spinning our wheels here. And by the way, I'm going to say it's garbage advice because I am extremely defensive. So, like, kind of any advice someone gives me besides two successful businessmen like you, I generally try to just brush it away. Right in the toilet. Right in the toilet. Okay. Well, I have two quick questions before we go. I know Chris has to run. We all got to go. We all got to run. You got to go to Ojai. Yeah, yeah. Do you have any, quote, unquote, no men or no people in your life right now? What? Define the terms. Like the opposite of a yes man. Oh. Yeah, I do. Well, I do like kind of like, no, yeah, I'm having a lot of struggle with this because as a producer, I found it challenging to work with artistic, you know, these artiste directors. I really want to respect their vision, but at the same time, I get frustrated, you know, with that part of the collaboration. It's complicated. the producer has become the director with his producing partners where we all like kind of, you know, bond over the struggles and tribulations of this dynamic. Now I have shifted back to the director role and now they're giving me like notes. And the part of my brain that remembers what was like being a producer is like, wow, I really feel for these guys because the other part of my brain is like, fuck you guys. Like you don't know what the right, yo, don't fuck up my movie right now. I got this vision, you know.

But I did make a note in my notepad, which is listen to Alex and Ricardo because I'm so defensive when it comes to stuff. That's like on top of my notes. So they're my no-men. A mantra. Alex and Ricardo. We can't end it on that. You want to end it on that? No. Oh, okay. um i mean i have more questions we can go yeah i mean you think everybody who's your guys's no man are you guys each other's no man are you guys yes i think actually i think we're pretty collaborative and come to informed decisions as often as possible to be completely honest i think we both say yes and no to each other a pretty even amount yeah like at equal yeah we don't no one's a i think people would assume someone's a poo-pooer but it's not really like that Do you guys each independently bring ideas to each other? And then like kind of like, is it a pretty even like McCartney Lennon type of thing? Yeah, exactly. I would prefer to be George Harrison just because he's the most talented. But I understand your analogy. The thing, the reason that band. was so successful all around. I think all the guys were really talented. That's probably true, and that's why I say the same about Maroon 5, and I don't know why people don't bring that up more. It's the same thing. I've met one of those guys a bunch of times. Oh, I bet you have, and I know which one. He's an incredibly sweet guy with nice houses every time I meet him, and he seems like he loves music. The only thing he's ever talked to me about is music. And he's got like four side bands and he's just like, you know, rocking for joy, like jumping for joy with music. His dream in life came true. He gets to play Do What He Loves. All right, all right. Hey, I don't know about these things. You know, I don't get involved in like gossip. I've never really been a part of like a scene. I don't have a group of guy friends. In fact, the joy I derive from coming on this show is like I feel like I'm hanging out with like. two bros, and we can bro code, but I don't ever flex this muscle in my brain or whatever, so it's actually a weird treat to be here with you guys. I really appreciate you guys having me on again. We love you, Eugene. Let's not end it on the Maroon 5 talk. We won't. A couple rapid fires. What's your Del Taco order? I only go to stands and trucks. I don't go to places like that. I live in LA. I don't go to...

fast food Mexican. There's so many amazing people who just start up their little stand. It's always so amazing. It's a gift. I agree with you, Eugene. There was a cameo for it in the film. I was just wondering if you had a little anecdote for it. Oh, Del Taco cameo in the film. That is just purely a production designer idea. Frankie Palumbo, shout out. If your name is Frankie Palumbo, you're a star you're not you're not art department with a name like that francesca francesca it's just francesca and uh zach miller just two people the whole department okay just two people just two regular people there's two geniuses yeah okay last question real quick do you think the elite use numerology and if so how so look look here's the thing imagine like 10 000 years ago okay When night falls, 90% of people go to sleep. Then 10% of people just look up at the stars or something, you know. And maybe 1% of that 10% come up with like a theory of what the stars mean, how to connect them, what the distance is, whatever. And then you have like, you know, a thousand competing theories. Two of them catch on and then people have to decide this one sounds good and this one doesn't. And then you come up with a belief system. You know, all this shit, our minds are built to connect things, you know. And like the main question that I'm posing in the movie or one of them is like. What if you could take all the experiences you had and all the memories that we've all floated onto our phones with our photos and videos and shit and find a new meaning for it? Well, you know, because haven't you ever gotten that thing a year ago or four years ago today, this memory happened and it's like a picture of you and your ex and it kind of hits different. I was like, what if you could make a movie where like the end of the movie suddenly hit different and all the experiences you've seen as a viewer and everything you lived through with your boyfriend, your girlfriend.

suddenly meant something else and could unlock something that you've been waiting for, which is to fuck. That might not make any sense to anyone who hasn't seen the film yet. For the listeners at home, Eugene lifted his arms up and thrust his pelvis forward when he said that. Like a member of O-Town. Hopefully that entices some people to check out the film because it is a big puzzle numerology thing. I think hopefully we'll resonate with people, you know, on an emotional and funny way. Yeah, I think you've invented cancellation kink. It's a new... God bless you, Eugene. Those are not my intentions, but when the art's out in the world, we let all the perverts and freaks. That's a lie. I can look at you and tell you love to make men hard. Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone, Eugene. Thanks for having me, guys. You want to know who's going to buy this show on iTunes? It's the pervs. Eugene, the film comes out in a little over a week, available on Mubi, rented on Apple, and if you live in Ojai, go to the screening tonight. If you live in L.A., come to, yeah, the next week, 9th through the 15th at the Lumiere Cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Thanks, Eugene. All right. Good to see you, bro. Appreciate it, bro. Good chatting with you. Thanks for having me. Tell Brent we said hi. I will. and your clients want security guarantee before engaging. That's precisely where Venta comes out. Venta comes out and automates the risk management, the conformity and the trust client in a single platform. That you prepare your SOC 2 or that you pilot a GRC program, Venta helps you to stay secure while accelerating your sales cycles. Follow the example of Conto and Pigment, reduce your audit of 82%. Lance you on Venta.com.